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Topic: Suggestions for getting rid of excess playing noise? |
Doug Burling
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 8:46 am |
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| Ok, I'm hitting my first wall as a new lap steel player. I'm getting a lot of excess noise when going from fret to fret. I've been working on doing a better job of muting from one note to the next, but still a lot of noise going on. Any suggestions to help eliminating the noise. I thought intonation would be the biggest problem, but I'm actually doing well in that area. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 9:10 am
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Your fingers (pinky and side of your left hand) should be on the strings behind the bar to eliminate all of the excess overtones.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Eric Ebner
From:
Texas Republic
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 9:18 am
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Hello Doug!
Many new lap players are a little ridged and hold the bar much too tightly. This can cause noise. Here is an example of vibrato and damping which includes a closeup view of what a light and fluid touch looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esH4E21m0BM I'm sure you will get many other opinions here as well. All the best!
_________________
Tribo-Tone™ Bars |
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Doug Burling
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 10:55 am
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| I have been using my ring and pinky on my left hand to damping the strings. I also use the back side of my right hand to stop the notes from ringing between notes. Most of the noise is coming when I lift or slide the bar from one fret to another. |
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Eric Ebner
From:
Texas Republic
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 12:18 pm
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Are the strings clean? Old or corroded? Are they of good quality? One thing that might help is to use some StringEase, or FastFret type cleaner/lubricant. The secret is to use very little. Very much a situation of "less is more." Try that and see if it helps.
Your fingers could also be energizing the strings especially the wound strings. Try lifting the bar up and move your fingers/hands around in a playing position and see if there is a lot of noise. If the bar is not smooth this can cause noise as well.
_________________
Tribo-Tone™ Bars |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 12:39 pm
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If you are playing that Sierra with the MRI pickup ... Well ... It "picks up" everything ...
Depending on your mindset ... It is either a great pickup for a beginner ... or a terrible one.
It will not let you "get away" with anything ...
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Doug Burling
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 2:27 pm
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| Rick Aiello wrote: |
If you are playing that Sierra with the MRI pickup ... Well ... It "picks up" everything ...
Depending on your mindset ... It is either a great pickup for a beginner ... or a terrible one.
It will not let you "get away" with anything ...
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It is the Sierra with the MRI. I think it has a lot more to do with my technique than anything. The other problem is the hacked up nut and bridge slots. Uneven strings sure don't help. A forum member my dad was talking to said I should try semi flat wound strings. The other thing is I'm not quit use to holding the 3/4" diameter tone bar. I have a 13/16" x 3 1/8" bullet bar on the way, maybe that one will work better. The bar I'm using now is hard for me to hold on to. Especially when I pick it up to move to another fret. |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 3:22 pm about picking up that bar..................
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Several references have been made herein where the term "picking up the bar" is used.
During my many decades of playing, "picking up the bar" has never been a common practice for me. Even in Jerry Byrd's "Steelin' the Blues"........he merely slides the bar forward from an open string to a fretted string.......... I don't see him picking up the bar as some examples have shown on You Tube.
Just one guy's opinion........ |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 3:39 pm
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...which brings us to hurdle #3.. palm and/or pick blocking. Ray is right on of course, but as a beginner, the more "convenient" move is to pick up the bar to lessen the silverware effect  When you get muting down, you'll naturally just move the bar without picking it up, knowing the noise is "covered", and it then becomes more convenient (and effecient) to NOT pick up the bar.
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http://www.hsga.org/MitchCrane.htm
From the 'big hair' days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaWwzD9Jsn8 |
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Eric Ebner
From:
Texas Republic
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 3:59 pm
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On the other side of that coin... I'm a bar picker-uper! You can leverage either style to great effect. There is no "correct" method but there are lots of preferences. Either way... It's music.
_________________
Tribo-Tone™ Bars |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 4:26 pm
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one thing I learned right off was that picking up and placing a bar on a vibrating string makes noise.
that occurred most when I tried single note runs from string to string.
I made the typical beginner errors. now I walk before I run. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 5:06 pm
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Picking up the bar is normal for a dobro. And I hear Leon picking up the bar on songs like Panhandle Rag, doing hammer-ons and pull-offs like a regular guitarist. Using a Stevens bar makes it easier to lift the bar from the strings- that is the one with grooves on the sides for your fingers. It seems like most of the Sacred Steel players (pedal and non-pedal) use a Stevens bar- like Robert Randolph. There are variations on the Stevens bar, such as the GS bar that has a hardwood top.
While a Stevens-type bar is much easier to hold I find that a small bullet bar (3/4" or 13/16" diameter) offers more maneuverability, especially with forward and reverse slants.
I agree with Eric that both techniques can work really well. I'm a bar picker-upper, too- but it's not to reduce string or bar noises.
BTW I read a post here that you can get a really cool special effect by selectively unmuting your bar while at the 12th fret, especially with a nice vibrato. And it is a good way to judge how effective your muting is.
Steve Ahola
_________________
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Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits
Last edited by Steve Ahola on 14 Sep 2011 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Burling
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 7:29 pm
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Thanks for all the great advice. I'm working on keeping the bar on the strings rather than picking it up. I guess the only time you should pick the bar up is if you're playing one string like with a tilt? Or, how about hammer on's? I'm taking the same approach I take with six string guitar, play only as fast as you can and still play it right. If I'm making mistakes, slow it down to where I can do it without the mistakes. Well, if I play any slower, I'll forget where I'm going next  |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 7:43 pm An afterthought for you Doug.................
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I'm not selling the JERRY BYRD style however since I'm a bit more familiar with IT, than any other, I'd like to urge you to go You Tube and the JerryByrd-FanClub.com and listen to all of JERRY BYRD's performances.
Don't just listen to the pretty music.......
but specifically tune your ear to the sounds emitting from Jerry's guitar. Jerry always said there was more music to be found between the frets than on the frets. If you listen carefully you'll hear that Jerry NEVER lifts the bar off of the strings unless there is a specific message to be relayed by doing so.
Obviously one can do hammer-ons, etc., but that is a
specific effort to accomplish a specific affect.
Otherwise, I'd encourage you to keep the bar on the strings at all times. Even Mr. Emmons does this on his slow ballads, as did John Hughey on his solo's.
Practice it for awhile then report back to us here on the SGF what you've discovered. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 8:39 pm Re: An afterthought for you Doug.................
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
| Jerry always said there was more music to be found between the frets than on the frets. |
Kinda like the journey being more important than the destination? I agree with you that keeping one's bar on the strings can produce some of the most beautiful sounds on a non-pedal steel, and it is a technique definitely worth learning.
I had a question for you, Ray. I heard that Don Helms didn't like to play slants so that he'd "jump" up and down the fretboard to find the notes and chords he wanted. Do you know if he "jumped around" with his bar on the strings, or did he lift it off of the strings?
I know this must sound like heresy but I use a heavier 13/16" Burden Bullet bar when I am keeping the bar on the strings as you suggest and the lighter 3/4" JD 918 "Jerry Byrd" bar when I plan to lift the bar off the strings a lot. 
Steve
P.S. Getting back to string noise, Scotty's sells semi-flat strings for the common lap steel and pedal steel tunings- I've been trying out a set of them and I like how they sound and play. ("Semi-flat" means that the strings were round wound to a higher gauge, but machined down so that the surface is flatter. IMO a good compromise to keep the price down.)
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Eric Ebner
From:
Texas Republic
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Posted 15 Sep 2011 8:26 am
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Hi Doug,
Not just reserved for hammer-on's and 1 string tilts. Greg Leisz is a good example of a bar lifter... and certainly a working steel guitar great;-) I've watched him play live. Here's a small example of Greg lifting the bar while recording with Bill Frisell. These are not trivial musicians either. Lifting and placing the bar will not make noise if done properly. It's fun and effective as well. Whatever works for you.
_________________
Tribo-Tone™ Bars |
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Doug Burling
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2011 8:56 am
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| Eric Ebner wrote: |
Hi Doug,
Not just reserved for hammer-on's and 1 string tilts. Greg Leisz is a good example of a bar lifter... and certainly a working steel guitar great;-) I've watched him play live. Here's a small example of Greg lifting the bar while recording with Bill Frisell. These are not trivial musicians either. Lifting and placing the bar will not make noise if done properly. It's fun and effective as well. Whatever works for you. |
It's quit clear to me that there is no wrong way. Lift the bar or not is no more than personal preference. It's my guess that doing both, depending on what you are playing at the time, is where I'll end up. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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...sounds like you're off to a normal start to me. Keep at it, both will get better very soon and then the real fun starts !