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Topic: components of good sustain |
Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 20 May 2011 6:29 pm |
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I was just curious as to what components make up a PSG's ability to sustain a note. It seems it is partially from the guitar itself, has at least something to do with technique, and another part from equipment (tone bar/VP/amp, etc).
As a relatively new player, I am unsure how much sustain I should expect, and how to test out my guitar, technique, and equipment for note sustainability, or how to potentially improve it, if necessary/possible. Can one have TOO MUCH sustain? Is this yet another of those ambiguous characteristics that are debated greatly between players like "tone", or is there general agreement about the secrets to great sustain?
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 20 May 2011 8:50 pm
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Don't be worrying about if your rig has "enough sustain" but keep practicing the important basics; no purpose is served in trying to get long notes just to prove that you can. As you develop technique and familiarity with the instrument you will find yourself hearing sustained notes as an appropriate part of a musical statement, and eventually you will begin to play what you hear in a natural fashion.
Hanging long notes and playing slurred moving passages are both a pretty straight-forward deal with the pedal steel:
1) You've gotta pick the string like you mean it
2) Once you've got it going use your tone bar and vibrato to keep it singing
3) Use your volume pedal to keep the sound level constant as the string's vibrations die out
All three of these components require a range of learned skills to execute, be patient and it will come to you soon enough.
While various instruments, strings, etc. will have different sustain characteristics that's basically how you get sustain on all PSG's. I have never heard of "too much" sustain, other than the sort that results from poor damping technique |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 21 May 2011 7:34 am
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Thanks Dave, that's exactly what I was looking for. I noticed MSA has a build called "super sustain" so thought maybe some guitars have something that others don't (maybe a SS pickup?) that make real long sustain possible. The steps you describe all sound basic enough that most players can develop good note sustainability with practice. I could probably use a little work on all 3 steps, myself.
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 21 May 2011 7:47 am
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Sustain is not that much of an issue... Maybe sustain above the 12th fret..but it is all about practice.
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MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 21 May 2011 8:10 am
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Same tips apply to sustain above the 12th fret? It definitely seems more difficult up there.
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 21 May 2011 10:21 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
You've gotta pick the string like you mean it |
Tommy Dodd epitomizes this. If you ever get a chance to see him play, watch his right hand. He doesn't merely pick the strings, he tears into them like a charging lion. He plays with more fire and passion just about anybody I've ever seen, and that fire travels from his heart to his steel via his right hand.
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| Use your volume pedal to keep the sound level constant as the string's vibrations die out |
This is somewhat off topic, but once again, kudos to Dave Beaty for his Telonics volume pedal and the new taper that has a 6 db gain increase at the end of the throw which greatly increases the sustain. (The new taper can be downloaded and installed in the older Telonics pedals.)
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 21 May 2011 2:52 pm
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There was a "cool-guy rock trick" caused by standing in front of an amp till your guitar fed back - I first heard Leslie West do it on Mountain's live album, but a large number of guitarists employed it. It used to get a round of applause, but it's kind of hackneyed by now. There's a particular way to set a delay pedal to add a lot, but I won't post it because: SUSTAIN IS NOT NEARLY THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF GOOD TONE.
It's certainly a sign that an instrument is constructed well enough to not rattle every note dead, but decay - and the tones associated with it - has more to do with how music sounds. When steel and six-string guitarists automatically gravitate toward rig choices that emphasize sustain above all else, they're not paying attention to the overall blend of highs, hi mids, mid mids, low mids and lows.
Read over some sheet music of your very favorite pieces. Find the parts where whole notes are tied together over three measures... Oh! There isn't any! Hmmm.... Yet manufacturers still write their ads geared towards the idea that people will buy anything that promises more sustain - greater sustain - Sustain Longer than the Bible! SUSTAIN THAT OUTLASTS DEATH!!! Good luck with that stuff. |
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Mike Poholsky
From:
Kansas, USA
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Posted 22 May 2011 6:08 pm
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http://youtu.be/oB6zw6RSZzU
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Zumsteel 12 Universal
SGBB
ShoBud VP
'64 Fender Twin Reverb/Fox Rehab
Fender Steel King w/BW 1501-4
FX to Taste |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 24 May 2011 8:44 am
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OTOH I pick very lightly and don't normally use a volume pedal, yet I can get tremendous sustain playing any of the steels I've had except for one old MSA Classic that was just tonally dead.
As previously posted, the right combination of guitar, amp, volume level and physical position of the amp and guitar can have a significant effect. I always try to use the lowest-powered amp I can for the given venue (and at home it means a Vox AC4, Fender Champ or similar) and use the natural feedback of sound waves vibrating the strings. It's not the screaming type of nasty feedback you get with a mic too close to an amp - it's the natural sound of the guitar/amp combination.
You have to be able to drive an amp hard - not necessarily to the point of distortion, which is a factor only if you want it to be or don't know how to control it - and a high powered amp turned up to "2" won't cut it without using a compressor (not a good solution); pick attack won't make much difference (except for an initially harsh sound) unless you're driving the amp fairly hard; then it can control breakup and a volume pedal can be used in the traditional manner.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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