Emmons Push Pull difficult to tune? Anyone in AUS help?

Chris Gillespie · From: New South Wales, Australia

I'm looking at buying an Emmons Push pull here in Australia. The seller says it needs tuning and it can be a very difficult task to tune and maintain if you're a beginner (like me). Is this true? How difficult is it? Do I have any chance of doing it? How often do they need tuning? Also, does anybody know of anyone in Australia who I could take it to? (preferably Sydney area but I will send it anywhere in oz if needed) The seller also says there's NOBODY in AUS that works on Pedal steels. Is that right?
Any help/thoughts much appreciated.

richard burton · From: Britain

If it only needs tuning, and not setting up, it's a walk in the park Smile

All you have to remember is to tune the raised notes at the keyhead (with the relevant pedals/levers activated), release everything and tune the open notes at the lower row of holes in the endplate, then tune the dropped notes by activating the knee levers and tune at the upper row of bolts in the endplate

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

Emmons p/p guitars are no more difficult to tune than any other guitar. They are different than an all-pull guitar in that you tune the raises with the tuners, and the open strings and lowers at the end plate.

If the owner is a steel player and he can't tune the guitar, something is probably seriously wrong with the guitar/setup. Any guitar that is not setup correctly can be a problem....p/p's are no different.

There are a number of members on this forum that live in Australia. I suggest you solicit help from one of them in evaluating the instrument.

If you can take detailed pictures of the underside it might help some of the p/p people on this site help you.

If you're not mechanically inclined, and there are not knowledgeable people available to help you locally, I wouldn't recommend purchasing any guitar you don't understand.

My p/p is very stable and stays in tune for months.

Here's a couple of links to previous thread that had Australian members posting. Might try to contact some of them with your questions. Good luck!!

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=202590&highlight=australia

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=203041&highlight=australia

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

When you get the guitar you should follow these instructions to tune the changer, and then tune the guitar:

http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html

Once the changer is in tune the guitar will be easier to tune than an all-pull and will hold its tuning better than an all-pull. That is assuming that there are not other problems with the guitar, but John Lacy's Emmons push-pull wilderness guide (as linked to above) will get it close to where it should tune-up properly. The Emmons push-pull guitar has garnered an undeserved reputation of being hard to tune. This is usually said by people who have never played one or understood how to tune one, or by people who screwed them up by screwing around with them without understanding them. I agree with Steve that what the seller said to you may mean that there is something amiss with the guitar, or perhaps with the seller, or perhaps the seller simply doesn't understand how a push-pull works. There are forum members here from Australia, and be proud that the Anapeg steel guitar is made in Australia. As a beginner, any of these contraptions is going to take a while to get used to, whether it is an all-pull or a push-pull. If the guitar is in good shape and you like it, I would not shy away from a push-pull, but read John Lacy's guide until you understand how the changer and the stops work. Once you understand how the design works you will appreciate it. I think that people come to push-pulls after playing all-pulls and they get discouraged because they are thinking from the all-pull design rather than taking the short time necessary to understand the push-pull. If you like the tone and the feel of the push-pull, get a push-pull because you will eventually end up with one (an all-pull just ain't got that push-pull "magic"). If the tone and feel of the push-pull don't do much for you, and especially if you want to use "splits" for your tunings, get an all-pull. Welcome aboard!

Tomi Graso · From: Sydney / Australia

Chris Hi, This is Tomi from Sydney , just sent you a private message....hope to hear from you soon ,

Regards
Tomi......steel / Sydney

Brendan Mitchell · From: Melbourne Australia

Chris my first steel was a push/pull and the one I play today is a push/pull .
Great guitars but try and get someone to check it out for you .
I am sure someone local to you will help out . I would for sure but I am in Melbourne .
Regards
Brendan

Jeff Spencer · From: Queensland, Australia

Hi Chris. Tommi Grasso (above) is a player to be listened to - supurb. Take up any offers he has.

Cheers
Jeff

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

While it's true that it typically takes longer to alter the pedal and knee lever setup of Emmons push/pull guitars than all-pull guitars, it is a myth that Emmons p/p guitars are difficult to adjust or keep in adjustment. And they certainly are no more difficult to tune or keep in tune than any other pedal steel.

Emmons p/p guitars are different from all-pulls in that a small amount of slack is needed to allow the rods to both push and pull the changer fingers. The trick is creating just the right amount of slack. Once you have adjusted the rod-collars (and pedal stops) properly, it is unlikely you will have to touch the undercarriage again for many years!

I'd highly recommend Clem Schmitz's bargain-priced booklet "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar" for only $11. Clem used to own a steel guitar store and repair shop in Minneapolis.

The booklet shows how to make simple adjustments or take the entire guitar apart and put it back together--not that you are likely to ever have to do this.
In his booklet, Clem explains step by step (with photos) exactly how to disassemble, re-assemble, and adjust push-pull guitars with several clever little tricks that would take a very long time to figure out.

He usually sells the booklet on eBay listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar Methodology P/P Guide Booklet" for $11.
He also sells a DVD listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar Methodology DVD P/P Guide" for $17, and a combo package of the book and DVD as "Pedal Steel Guitar Methodology P/P Book & DVD Package" for $22.

If you can't find it on e-Bay, you can contact Clem at: freedomsauce@bellsouth.net

Some other sources of basic info on p/p guitars:
A WILDERNESS GUIDE TO BASIC SETUP OF AN EMMONS PUSH PULL STEEL GUITAR by John Lacey
http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html

Carter Guitar
http://www.steelguitarinfo.com/adjustments/tuneitup.html

Dave

Chris Gillespie · From: New South Wales, Australia

Thanks for the responses Everyone..

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