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Topic: Help dating this bakelite ? |
Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 6:20 am |
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Is there a serial number Ric lookup anywhere to accurately determine the date of build ? Serial # C2938
Here's the guitar:
(ALL PICS HERE:) http://tinyurl.com/4cmsweg
Last edited by Mitch Crane on 13 Jan 2011 3:09 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 7:16 am
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If it helps, she looks just like mine -- 1941.
Cheers,
John
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 8:16 am
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| Thanks .... so how is it you know yours is a '41 ? |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 8:51 am
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Bobbe Seymour of Nashville (Steel to the Stars) was the former owner and passed the info on to me. I also had it appraised by some local geeks. I am not sure where they get their info. You can gleen some info here:
http://home.provide.net/~cfh/rick.html
You can be assured that your Ric is pre-war because of the spelling. And I am reasonably sure that the panda (black and white) happened in the 1940-ish range... I think before that the covers were chrome.
My '41 needs a white knob. Finding one is like looking for El Dorado.
Here is my baby. Mint, except for the replacement tone knob. It sounds so sweet it makes me dizzy sometimes.
I took this photo in September when the thistle-down was out.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 9:09 am
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| Mitch Crane wrote: |
| how is it you know yours is a '41 ? |
The war era plastic plates and 2-toned knobs are tip-offs. |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 9:13 am
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| Thanks guys...I'm just wondering how you come up with the exact year ? How do you know if it's a '38, a '41 or other pre-war year. I'm learning what the configs were for the pre-war models, but still not sure how you know which specific year ? There are serial numbers stamped, but is there a log of those numbers anywhere to check the build year ? |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 9:21 am
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Well that link I provided it explains that these early guitars did not have a reliable serial number system so I believe there are other ways to tell.
Are your white plates plastic or painted steel? Are the knobs bakelite or plastic? Is the pup 1.5" or 1.25"? String-thru? Are the frets black or are they white-highlighted? These are all things I have gleened from conversations here on SGF.
I believe Ray Montee knows these Rics intimately and hopefully he will pipe up at some point.
I imagine you can also open her up and look at the pots and capacitors for more evidence -- but this is farther than I need to go myself.
If it quacks like a duck... 
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Richard Shatz
From:
St. Louis
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 9:25 am
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Mitch,
Prewar Ricks cannot be precisely dated.
All the model B steels that I've seen have a C prefix serial number. The number is thought to be chronological, but no one knows for sure.
According to Gruhn white metal plates and flying saucer knobs were in use by 1940. If the plates are white plastic the instrument was probably made in the early war years. |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 9:33 am
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Thanks again guys... so I guess there is no exact year to ascertain.. this one has the 1 1/2 pup, string-through... so I know it's pre-war or thereabouts, was just wondering if there was a way to determine the exact build year.
Thanks all ! I've got the info I need.
Last edited by Mitch Crane on 12 Jan 2011 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 9:34 am
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Cool info!
Gotta love SGF!
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 10:10 am
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Now...the long shot...
Anyone have an 'extra' case for this Bakelite they want to part with..or know where I might look ? Just has to fit, doesn't need to be the exact case of the period (but that would be ideal). |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 10:27 am
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I'd trade you my original case for the white knob on your Ric... but then we'd be no further ahead! LOL!
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Richard Shatz
From:
St. Louis
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 1:18 pm
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| Thanks Richard ! Some good ideas there... I drug up that old post in case there may be some more recent ideas ... Gold Tone lap steel case perhaps ? |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 1:22 pm
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Nice bakelite Mitch!  |
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Ron Simpson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 3:04 pm
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| A baritone ukulele case make a very good case for a bakelite Rickenbacker. The accessory compartment does need to be removed though. A little extra padding make everything secure. |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 3:09 pm
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Thanks guys for all the great suggestions and old threads on cases... I've emailed Kevin Hatton, and his cases look great, and the price is not too bad either... going to check into Pelican / other gun type cases as well.
Thanks all ! |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 5:01 pm
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HATTON CASES  |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 5:13 pm Text has been changed with NEW finding: It's a WWII edition.
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I am sorry, I've had to re write my earlier dating opinion on this guitar. Contrary to my earlier belief this is NOT a PRE-war model made during the war!
It's a war time model produced DURING the war:
It MAY be an early version of the second generation B-models, which DID carry the old logo. Yours does not show the white outlined frets and has the pre-war style 1 1/5" pickup, but everything else is second generation, which includes a new body shape, stronger (thicker neck) and most importantly a new, less brittle Bakelite formula!
Some pre-war models can be kind'a dated based on the lack of a tone control (earliest ones), addition and positioning of a tone control, appearance of the mentions "Patent Pending" and later on patent numbers on the pickup holding "ears" and the body (near the bridge) etc.
Back when I was really "into" these guitars I once worked up a dating guide and it was posted here... I don't know if it still floats around this forum, but apparently someone copied it and posted it here:
http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=269956&start=0
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it.
Last edited by J D Sauser on 13 Jan 2011 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 5:54 pm
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Thanks for your input J D and the link to the 'history' !
(and so far, the Hatton case looks like the way I'll go for max protection) |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 2:07 pm
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| Mitch Crane wrote: |
Thanks for your input J D and the link to the 'history' !
(and so far, the Hatton case looks like the way I'll go for max protection) |
I am sorry Mitch, that I have to edit/change my above statement.
Upon looking closer again at your guitar's pictures and pulling up comparative pictures I made in the past I am sorry I have to report that your guitar does NOT have a prewar body. It has the second generation body, which also means that it most likely is made of the the later, less brittle Bakelite formula.
Still a great guitar and desirable, with the original 1 1/2" pickup and string thru the body attach with the integrated bridge, but certainly NOT a pre-war model.
What had me fooled at first glance, was the lack of white outlined frets (typical for the second generation). Nevertheless, your guitar's NECK IS a second generation model.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 3:28 pm
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| Mitch Crane wrote: |
 Way to go JD, go ahead and spoil my high !! 
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Sorry, had to, it's my specialty!
Here some pictures to help identify first and second generation bodies:
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 6:19 pm
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| Thanks for all the great info JD |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 6:22 pm
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I had one of these, right about the same exact model, and it was one fantastic sounding steel. Wish I still had it.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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