string chiming ? ..Help

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

It doesn't seem to me that the Oahu course "contradicts the 'Chiming' proponents somewhat", or at all. It says "Harmonics are 'chime tones'".(emphasis added).

It's interesting, Basil, that you seem to refer to "Harmonics" as the "descriptive" term. I would be more inclined to use the word "descriptive" for "chimes" (In fact, I did, earlier in the thread!), because, to me, the term "chimes" clearly derives from the fact that harmonics, well, sound like chimes--I see no reason why it has to be tied in with Hawaiian mission bells, any particular tune, or anything else so specific.

I think there's a related issue going unexamined: Steel players routinely refer to the sounds produced when they strike a string, then press a pedal, as "bends". This is quite imprecise--the string doesn't bend, it stretches! A campaign to firmly establish "mechanical glissando" as the only acceptable term should be mounted! Wink

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

Well my next question has to be: If a lead guitarist pushes a string across the frets, is he bending it or stretching it ?? Conversely, when he releases it; is it a bend or a stretch ??

I'm wondering if wrapping (bending...) a string around a movable bridge is bending it further by rotating said bridge, or streching it by bending it further at it's pivot point.

Almost like the chicken or the egg question...

Regards, Paul

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Well :-

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

basilh: You Da Man !!

Regards, Paul Very Happy

basilh · From: United Kingdom

The ORIGINAL question

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

I wouldn't call it straying or off topic...It's merely a continuing conversation with some different aspects or views.

In that regard, an early Jerry Byrd course taught that where you picked a string would have an effect on it's tonal quality. Picking near the pickup would create a brighter sound while picking half way between the bar (or nut..) and bridge had a mellower effect. Until I stopped playing, I would always move my right hand to that mid-position when playing in any key. It also facilitated my use of palm harmonics (on topic...) as I would already be there, so to speak.

Those effects were a result of harmonic activation or suppression which is what the tone control on the National is doing by reducing or increasing frequency responce. Affecting the harmonic content (on topic..) via pick placement is the same result.

Regarding that bronz string; I used to do that to identify my middle E string on E9th. It just made a sight reference that much quicker. In those days, the chromatic strings were in the 9th and 10th position and things were easier to loose reference because of that.

Regards, Paul

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

This might help out somewhat.

Click Here

Now ya can go practice up on playing Harmonics and know what's happening to boot Very Happy

There IS a whole lot more to playing harmonics than simply playing open harmonics. And, it's most usually, the parts one doesn't know, that will get a person in trouble real quick without knowing.

Remember, you can play harmonics and you can play fundamental notes. You can play a bad note here or there and get away with it. You can't ever get away with playing a bad harmonic. Smile

PS: I forgot to mention also. There are people who do play "Bells." There are Chimes as in "Wind Chimes." Chimes, Bells, and all other (throughout the years) so called Harmonics, are simply used as an expression.

Harmonics, are nothing more than Harmonics of the fundamental note. To my ears a harmonic has never sounded like anything else that it isn't, and that includes bells, whistles, chimes or anything else. But again, maybe that's just my bad ears. Laughing

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

As far as the age of the terminology "Chime" goes, Jerry Byrd had "Steelin' The Chimes" in the mid fifties.

Personally, I always distinguish chimes and harmonics like this:

Playing "Chimes" is to play open notes with your left hand pinky over the 5thm 7th, 12th, 19th, or 21st frets.

Harmonics "Playing" is to play with either your right hand plam, knuckle or fingertip 12, 9 or 5 frets away from the bar.

But that's just my personal terminology. We all know what both terms are and the expressions tend to be different from player to player.

Chris

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

I guess an answer to my bending or stretching question lies with OUR ancestors as well.

Or maybe it's in basilh's can of worms...

Regards, Paul

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

I knew I should have left out the line about bending vs. stretching! Razz

Incidentally, just for the record, I myself have always said "harmonics". Smile

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

It's not a problem, Brint. I just thought it was worthy of more discussion.

Regards, Paul

Ed Altrichter · From: Schroeder, Minnesota, USA

Paul Graupp wrote:
An American and an Englishman discussing a car. Windscreen said the EM, windshield said the AM and they argued until the AM said: Well after all, who invented the car ??

The EM replied: Who invented the language ??

...and the American should have responded, "OUR Ancestors."

Ahem . . . sorry to butt in, but I believe both
the automobile and the English language originated in Germany. Ed

basilh · From: United Kingdom

But we DID win the war ! Evil or Very Mad

"with a little help from our friends"

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I did once encounter a lady in Nashville who was totally convinced that Henry Ford was the inventor of the motor car. She recited it like a mantra - I think she'd been brainwashed....
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

Just as an aside to this conversation, Jerry Byrd taught a method of chimes that I found (and still do...) very useful.

He would use two strings, usually the 1st and 4th or 2nd and 5th of C6th but it works with other combinations as well. The lower of the pair is chimed ( Harmoniced ???) while the higher is not. It inverts the the pair by making the lower note an octave higher but there are other musical coincidences in this trick that make for a very unusual voicing.

One simply elevates the front part of the palm to achieve one harmonic but not the other.

Years ago, in a thread similar to this one, I mentioned how I used my thumb pick to position my palm when creating harmonics. It got some nice comments then and may bear repeating here. When you find the 12th fret away from the bar, notice which fret the thumb pick is over and work from that reference point.

Regards, Paul

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Irrelevant

Steve Raulston · From: U.S.A. (deceased)

I remember back several years ago, an English motorcyclist had replied to a thread on a BMW forum I frequent, he would use his torch to inspect his gas tank of his steed for any corrosion from water collecting in the bottom. It was bemusing how quickly Yanks were jumping in scolding him that the use of a torch would cause a sudden explosion. I about fell out of my chair. I was lucky because we had a wonderful old English couple in my neighborhood while growing up, so I was familiar with the "English language. Thanks Basil for all your efforts and I apologize for my digression here. Smile

Les Green · From: Jefferson City, MO, R.I.P.

I'm with Baz on this one. In 1954 I took a 6 string guitar course from the U.S. School of Music. Never did they call it a chime, always a harmonic and that's what I've always called them since.
_________________
Les Green
73 MSA D10 8&4, 74 MSA S10 3&5, Legrande II 8&9, Fender Squier 6 string, Genesis III, Peavey 1000

Robert Harper · From: Alabama, USA

I hate to interupt, such a fine discussion. I would like an instuctional comment. I have been concentrating on my chime lately, The way I am attempting to chime is to use my fist. For example. If I am playing a "C"C chord at fret 3 I use my picking fist at fret 15. Comments welcome
_________________
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Robert if you're playing a "C" chord at fret 3 then you're using the A6th (or variant) tuning, one specific tuning that lends itself to open string harmonics.
I suggest practising them first. When you say "Fist" it somewhat confuses me as I haven't heard the term before and can't imagine the described implementation.. Could you supply a picture to make it a little clearer please..

Bill Mayville · From: Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.

Hi Jim
Looks like you have received quite a bit of info,from the guys.

If you need a cd with it,just let me know.
Getting into chimmonicks is very interesting..

Bill
_________________
Bill Mayville
06 Jackson Commemorative ,S 10
Black.For Sale . $18,000 Kidding

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Russ Hicks · From: Pegram, Tennessee, USA

Well, I just came across this thread, as usual a day late and a dollar short, but what a wonderfully interesting STEEL GUITAR topic, and thank God (and Bob) for this forum. For my two cents, I was lucky enough to see Buddy Emmons chime in person very early on and have done it that way ever since, or have at least tried to. However, after doing the R&R CD with 'the beaver', I must confess that if I were twenty years younger I would certainly work on doing it his way. I believe in doing chimes and playing in general in whatever way 'works for you', but if you're willing to 'relearn' a particular style (I'm too lazy), I highly recommend 'the way that Randy does it'.
rh

basilh · From: United Kingdom

For the person who requested the Sheet music..

I've lost the e-mail address but the scanned sheet music of "Sweet Hawaiian Chimes" is CLICK HERE

Interesting that the two published versions are in two different keys and also have different lyrics in places. In particular the first line of the Chorus:- "Ding DUNG"in one version and "Ring Out" in the other..

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