What's the deal with an eleven string E9th

Al Moss · From: Kent,OH,USA

I've been playing in some duo/trio settings during the last year or so--singer/songwriter kinds of things with acoustic guitar, steel, and bass. Seems like there's room for some lower notes to fit in the mix from the steel and I've been thinking about having a lower "root" tone on the bottom string, i.e., the 11th string would be a low "E". I know that there's lot's of 12 string Extended E steels out there, but, what about the eleven string. How do guys/gals find them to be and how do they fit applications like the settings that I'm talking about here?

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

This is one of my D-11 guitars. On E-9, the bottom 4 strings are, E, B, C#, E. The bottom E, when it gets used, fills-out the chord nicely. I just had a session where she, the singer, wanted me to stay out of her range and be on the bottom, in a "supportive" rather than lead role. That string got a work out.

The 11-string C6 tuning that I use is, C, E, G, A, C, E, G, A, C, E, G.

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

Seems to me it would be handy to be able to lower the 10th string B to an A on the 11 string, for a low root on the "IV" chord.

Al Moss · From: Kent,OH,USA

Thanks Chas, (nice pics too) ---the C# on the 9th string is interesting. Is that something that works out because of the 11 string configuration. Or, does it fit in better with pedals down for the A chord grips? Having the low E under an A chord is a nice sound to my ears at times.

Peter Freiberger · From: California, USA

Didn't Tom Brumley play an 11 string ZB E9 with a low E so he could play the Don Rich rhythm parts while Don soloed?

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Hi Al!
That's the reason I switched to my Kline Uni. Needed those low roots. I may just reconfigure my '74 Bud S-10 to eliminate the D string, and put that note on a knee lever on the B string, like it is on my Kline. I miss havin' those low roots in the mix.
JB

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Al, I have the C# on string 9, on all my E9ths. I bring it up to D, along with string 2 (D#->D), with RKR. Besides giving me an E6, on the low end, which is not how I think of it, it gives me a friendly string/note for III chords made with LKR E->Eb(D#) if I pick more strings than I was intending to. It also makes "bottom runs" between the "home fret" and 2 frets down a lot friendlier, it gives me an A chord, with a 3rd in the root that can "hold over" while I add the B "walk up" to push the pedal C# or similar to that, if you like the sound of a I chord bleeding into a II chord needing only the B-pedal, for starters.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I also tune my ninth string to C# as well as my 2nd. I find them to be more "user friendly" in all situations......JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Al Moss · From: Kent,OH,USA

Thanks Chas and others for the info. The tuning on the 2nd and 9th strings (C#) are things that I shall be trying out soon.

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

I played an S-11 RusLer with the octave lower "E" for 26 yrs. I ordered it that way after copying Tom Brumley's copedant from Winnie Winston's book. I used the low E for rhythm pads, mostly. And, it's great for the "Memphis" vamps, also. I added a raise to "F" and a lower to "Eb", later on. The "F" raise sounded better than the "Eb" lower, for some strange reason. I was mostly an E-9th player, then. I have switched to a U-12 ZumSteel and am now playing one big tuning. I still have my S-11 RusLer and play it on occasion.

Dallas Cheked · From: Pennsylvania, USA

This, to me would be ultimate double-neck setup. First of all I would have that bass "E" on the E9. Really nice for "power chords". Also I would consider having the "D" string on top of the C6 while keeping the high "G". I would probably go keyless, as it would accommodate the odd number of strings better while being compact.

Dallas Cheked · From: Pennsylvania, USA

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Dallas, to the best of my knowledge, there were no more than 2 or 3, Emmons D-11's made. The D-11 cut-tail, is currently in a case behind me. The D-11 wrap-around was made Feb 1965 for Bill Echols, who I never had the pleasure of meeting. I've known about the guitar since around 1990 and when it turned up in a pawn shop, in Jacksonville a few years ago, I bought it sight unseen. It was in really bad shape, and I'm sure the pawn shop owners are still chuckling about the guy in California who was so excited to get it. It required a complete rebuild and I had to soak the changers in solvents to get them apart, but it had been "pimped" with rhinestones, glued all over it, and that was very impressive.

Long story short, I think 11 strings on a 10 string body give the guitar a more robust sound and on the rare occasion that I get a session for "traditional" music, the wraparound, apparently, has given them the sound they were looking for.

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Is the black pedal bar the way Emmons made it, or is that a custom touch?

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Cliff, I believe the pedal bar is orig, however the Emmons emblem, on the front, is not. Originally it had a decal, but it got "modernized", probably at a time when vintage wasn't an issue.

This is the current undercarriage.

And while I'm a purist, up to a point, this guitar is a player and I like the action of a gear driven reverse knee.

While I'm at it, this is the cut-tail, with 10 pedals and the original decal. I played it out for several years, but the string spacing is narrow and it requires a "delicate" touch.

I also have a T-11-11-16 Sho-Bud permanent that someday I'm going to finish rebuilding.

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Wow--very cool stuff. Who did the geared knee lever?

A cut-tail with a decal? Is that common? I've never seen that.

I am having a hard time imagining an 11-11-16 Sho-Bud.....I can get past the 11-11 part, but I'm lost at the 16....Help me out, Chas!

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

Al, I also need more bottom so I put a B on 9 (.038) and an E on 10 9,056)....I use a 1/2 stop on 8 to lower to Eb/D, A pedal lowers 9 to A, RKR raises it to C#, and LKL (F lever) lowers 10 to C#....FAT chords, endless combinations Larry

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

Make that an E on 10 (.056).. LA

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Cliff, yours truly did the geared knee and the decal cut tail would be from around '68 or '69. Supposedly the guitar was made for Bobby Garrett, and according to Mona, the 11-11-16 was made for Bobby Garrett in 1964.
The 16 is a double-course 8, that had 3 pedals.

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Man, that looks crazy. Thanks for posting that picture. Double courses on pedals with a bar, that has to be a cool sound.

Al Moss · From: Kent,OH,USA

Thanks for the tuning info about getting the low notes still using a 10 string gtr, --9th string B and 10th an E. The chording combos look to be real nice , but, how does it work out for single string, Duane Eddy, Johnny Cash kind of runs and such?

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Works out pretty well, Al. On my Kline the B gets pulled to C# with the first pedal, and on to D with a knee. You're kinda in bottleneck tuning on those bottom 3 strings on a10 string.
Best,
JB

Dallas Cheked · From: Pennsylvania, USA

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