Changer Issue = RESOLVED! Thanks everyone!

Stephen Karney · From: Nashville, TN

Hey folks!

I have a Thomas all-pull pedal steel that just started having an issue with with the A-pedal raise on the 5th string (B to C#).

Here's what happened:
I noticed the change go drastically out of tune while I was practicing today. I checked to see if it was the string itself, but it was definitely the the raise. So i re-tuned the nut. Got it in tune again, and it stayed just fine, but I noticed that raise making a noise. It now makes a fairly loud 'click' when the pedal is released. So I took a look underneath and noticed when I worked that pedal (or the C pedal), the finger moved in an unnatural manner compared to the rest. When the guitar is upside down, all of the other fingers make a smooth, upward motion (that's the best i can describe it) when pulled as a raise. The 5th string finger makes a strange motion when raised, it comes up and out from the spring, almost like it is raising and lowering at the same time.
The more I think about it, the more I think that this change finger is wore out and it can't articulate properly. Maybe its something simpler.

Am I on the right track? What do you guys think might be the problem? If anyone has some knowledge they could throw my way, or send me to a post that has any related info, I would greatly appreciate it. For now it will function, but I'm certain that its not right and will only get worse, so I want to get it right.

Thanks so much!

Karney

Stephen Karney · From: Nashville, TN

Pat Comeau · From: New Brunswick, Canada

Hi Steven,

have you try to adjust the spring tension?...if the lower move with the raise on the same pull...it means that your return spring has to be tightenin' just enought to hold back the lower finger on the rest stop plate or that the tuning nut at the changer is over tightening and should be back off until the lower finger stops moving away from the stop plate , the 5th string is one of the most string that gets tuned alot on a E9th PSG and gets out of tune or adjustement more often than any other strings, you'll probably need to do a full adjustement on that string...

1.slack the tunning nut at the changer

2.tune the 5th string ( B ) at the keyhead

3.press A pedal and tune the pedal stop (travel)underneath as close to the ( C# )note

4.fine tune the ( C# )note at the changer with the pedal A engage

5. check to see if the lower finger is moving when you press pedal A, if it does...you have to tight the return spring just enought to hold back the lower finger on the rest stop plate.

hope this help.....................Pat C Smile

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Click the links to listen to my Comeau's Pedal Steel Guitars.
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Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

As the problem came on quickly, look around in the changer for a string ball end that may be jamming up the works.
JE:-)>
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Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Also you might check for wear where the lower scissor contacts the aluminum finger, I've seen the wear a groove there, and hang.

BF
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Good point, Bill. I have a Sho-Bud finger assembly where the lower finger had eaten right through the chrome and into the metal. That is why I make mine with a sealed ball bearing on the end of the lower scissors.
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John Bumbarger · From: Houtzdale, Pennsylvania, USA

I had the same problem. It was my 5th and 6th. I cut two coils off each spring and it seemed to solve my problem. I ordered new springs before I replace the changer.

Stephen Karney · From: Nashville, TN

Thanks for all of the replies.
Pat, now I know how to adjust the pedals. That seemed like it was going to work, and I think it helped, but now I have the A pedal set at its longest throw, and the problem still occurs. So I adjusted the spring tension, full tilt, still have the problem. It seems extremely possible that the spring is wore out, maybe cutting off some coils will fix it.
My main concern with that:
Is it possible the problem lies deeper? Should I tear into the changer before i hack up the spring, or am I better off cutting the spring and finding out that's wrong before I go through the hassle of tearing apart the changer?

Pat Comeau · From: New Brunswick, Canada

Hi Stephen,

I got a feeling that your problem is a wrong adjustment on that string, i would try to cut the spring first cause you can always buy them cheap if you mess it up, make sure you have a little slack on the pedals before they engage...1/32" or 1/16" should be enough cause if it's to tight it won't come back in tune, Stephen...did it just started all of a sudden? or it started causing problems then became worst with time?, i'm pretty sure it's not a big probem but in the worst case...you'll need to change that changer fingers on that string, one thing you can try if you can't fix the problem is... swap the first string changer fingers to the 5th string cause the first string usely ony have one pull on it or...if you don't have any pull on the 7th string...swap that one instead, after you done this and you still have the same problem... than it's either the spring or an adjustment, the only drawback to do this is you'll have to take the strings off, pull rods and take the changer apart Oh Well

.

good luck Smile

Pat C
_________________
Comeau SD10 4x5, Comeau S10 3x5, Peavey Session 500,Fender Telecaster,Fender Stratocaster, Fender Precision,1978 Ovation Viper electric. Alvarez 4 strings Violin electric.

Click the links to listen to my Comeau's Pedal Steel Guitars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIYiaomZx3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2GhZTN_yXI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvDTw2zNriI

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Before cutting anything or taking off the springs, I'd remove both pull rods any any lower rods for the fifth string. Also loosen up the the 5th string itself and its return spring so you can move the changer finger by hand. Both the raise and lower portions should move freely w/o any drag.

Inspect the pull rod, spacers and tuning nuts for evidence of metal shavings or burrs....Then tune the open 5th string to "B" w/ your tuner.

Add the pull rods one-by-one starting w/ the "A" pedal B-->C#.

Observe the 5th finger changer motion while you engage and disengage the pedal. It should be smooth and the lower finger should not move.

Next, set the PEDAL stop just enough so the C# change is just slightly sharp. Then loosen the pull rod tuning nut to tune the C# where you like it. There should be a touch of slack when jiggling the rod back and forth while the pedal is not engaged.

If everything is working, add your "C" pedal 5th string and B--> Bb changes individually, repeating the same inspection process ( though you should adjust the pedal length of the C pedal to the 4th sting raise, as it will be the longest throw).

If that doesn't do the trick, I'd take out the changer finger and make sure it's not getting hung up, or the axle isn't scored.

Stephen Karney · From: Nashville, TN

Sorry I let this thread die...
I did get things adjusted to where it works right, but I don't like how it plays now, so I found someone local to help me do a setup on it.
Thanks for all your help!

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