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Topic: Future of the Steel Guitar. Who are the next GREATS? |
Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 3:01 pm |
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Here is a topic to consider. I would love to have tons of input on this. Unlike the title suggests, I'm really not looking for names here. I'm asking you to engage in the process of sharing information and encouraging young kids to take a shot at the steel guitar. Those are the "GREATS" that I'm after. I was discovered by a GREAT (Zane Beck) at the age of 9. I only consider myself a tiny part of this steel guitar community but I know my influence might possibly lead to many of those in younger generations to become "masters" of the instrument.
Let's for the sake of this conversation take a person who has decided to pursue pedal steel. Of course, I've been doing it 32 years now and I have to make the decision about everyday.  What a love/hate relationship I have with these bicycles!!! What are the options for that new student?
Buying used or new? My guess is many start with something as inexpensive as possible just to see if they believe they are going to like it. I would like to hear about your beginning experience. Was that with a new or used instrument? If my hunch is correct then most people are using something used and that limits them to whatever setup is likely on it. Because they are just beginning they just simply accept that it is the most correct way of setting up the guitar and tuning it. Certainly, not always the case. 
At some point in this exploratory process one must consider the tuning involved. Beginners and novices are usually pretty surprised to learn the many variables involved in your every day run of the mill steel guitar! Today it would seem there are basically 3 predominant choices and any number of choices of pedals and lever combinations.
D10 (E9/C6)
S10 (E9)
S12 (Universal)
As most of you know that are probably reading this I am on a mission of my own tuning alternatives. Ultimately, I believe it is healthy for the development of our instrument to be more and more standardized. I am not saying my way is best or even that it needs to be considered. I am, however, saying that a more generalized structure will lead to tremendous exposure of the pedal steel guitar. If children throughout the world had an opportunity for lessons such as they do for piano and guitar just imagine what kind of music and creativity we would be hearing a few years from now. With that in mind, I hope that analogy helps you understand why I'm working so hard to find what the best elements are to universalize.
I'm quite confident that my work and contributions are just the beginning of this refinement process. I'm confused why so many players believe that we are already there with a 2 tuning, 20 string, 9 pedal, 7 lever intimidating structure known as a D10. Is that really what we are aspiring to? Are we considered advanced at that point? Sure, I'm taking a swing here at the D10 but hear the spirit by which I'm saying this. Do you honestly believe that a 10 year old kid will understand this complicated process or will he or she choose the standard guitar instead. Besides they just look so much more fun, huh? Come on, get with me on this idea. We have a wonderful opportunity to influence those generations behind us. Let's give them great choices and pedal steel guitar being one of them.
I welcome your thoughts.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Zane
_________________
Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 6:26 pm
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| I consider myself lucky to have started out on an 8 string A6 tuning. My first couple of years were a total unguided exploration, and on a tuning and copedent that was completely different from anyone I was trying to emulate. Probably not a system worth promoting to other beginners, but i think it did me a lot of good. Now I play a D10, and even though I know I'd probably be further along right now if I started with a double-neck, I wouldn't do it differently if I had the chance. A lot of the best players in the past, (i.e. Emmons, Mooney) were guys who were willing/compelled to figure out the mechanics of the instrument themselves and make changes that made sense to them. Seems to me that when they got an idea they just went down to the hardware store, got the stuff, and made it work for what they wanted to do. Even if the steel guitar became more universalized, I can't imagine that aspect of it going away. Well, that's all my phone will let me type. Love the topic Zane. |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 6:46 pm
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Brett - probably learning the basic techniques of picking and bar hand is best started on a non-pedal steel. That can serve as a good foundation. Actually, that could be a very good way to test if a child has a natural aptitude for the instrument. Because the lap steel is also a used effectively as a "slide" I can see where students would be drawn to this approach. Just like any other instrument they would then take it as far as their ability and creativity would take them.
Yes, likely steel guitar players will always be inventors and tinkerers.
_________________
Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Jamie Stoner
From:
Bowling Green, Kentucky
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 6:48 pm
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id like to know what age everyone thinks would be appropriate for a child to start on steel if they have a desire to. My brother started at 14, i started regular guitar at 9, but didnt start on steel until a couple years ago...(35ish). I have 8 kids that range from 16 down to 2, and two that are both in the Navy (step sons). My kids love to watch and listen...and I am not at a level I could teach them right, but I would love to see them have a true desire to learn this fascinating instrument...would love everyones views, and would even like to know someone that would want to give lessons to a youngster, preferably close to bowling green, KY or Nashville, TN. Thanks
_________________
Michael Douchette's Franklin; Sho~Bud Fingertip D12; Sho Bud S10 6139 Serial #2911;1973 Fender Twin Reverb Silverface; Fender Cyber Twin; VZ Custom Telecaster; Epi Les Paul Custom Silverburst; Epi DOT; Copley Acoustic; Copley Acoustic Bass; Hammond E311 Organ; 1941 Chickering Baby Grand Piano, formerly owned by John Prine; 1921 Chickering Baby Grand 100th Anniv Quarter Grand |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 7:02 pm
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Jamie, well God bless you! That's a household my friend. You don't need rhythm tracks to play along with you just need to teach those kids different instruments and you've got yourself a band. Love it!
There are physical limitations to consider. I was 7 when I started piano. I have taught music to many children. I can tell you that 7 is the average age of when they should start music. I also believe that they should begin on piano. It offers so much structure and visualization of music. It's a foundation that all musicians who have it are thankful and those who don't wish they had. I started steel at 9. So I think the best starting age is 9 or 10. I was playing professionally (yeah working musician) by time I was 13. I was writing instruction courses by 14 in a tuning that I didn't even play.
Jamie - I am very busy but I'm also very driven about this idea of finding the next GREAT players. I also work for a worldwide organization called Compassion International so teaching children is paramount to our future. Perhaps, this fall I will be able to start some classes here in Nashville. I'm even looking into other players donating some of there time to teach. Simply put, I'm going to start a model of a steel guitar school that hopefully can be duplicated elsewhere. At the end of the day, it won't matter how much knowledge and ability the teacher has because the point is to inspire, recruit and teach the beginning student. Once those that excel are identified scholarship type programs can become a reality.
I hope others take a hold of my idea here because I envision a system that could be put in place where thousands of kids across our country could be learning and trying steel guitar.
All that said, I hope to meet your kids at some point. Just in keep in mind that a basic interest in music is also necessary.
_________________
Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 7:07 pm
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Zane,I think you are on the right track.I have two grandsons 6and7 which the youngest comes over to my little spot where I keep my stuff and I let him play my guitar.I even have a set of picks for him.A standard set up ,I think would help a bunch.The player could make his own changes as permitted.Learning to dig with a backhoe was the same way,until they started making the controls the same.And there are still some that are't.I am in that same circumstance where I play a used guitar where I learn intructional material that doesn't match my instrument.Been playing strings long enough to make it work tho.You know the Emmons,Day set up is confusing enough,if your just getting started.I think your headed in the right direction.
_________________
Gibson Les Paul
Reverend Avenger
Paul Reed Smith
Fender Telecaster
MSA S10 Classic
ShoBud
Old Peavy Amps |
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Jamie Stoner
From:
Bowling Green, Kentucky
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 7:18 pm
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I would love to find someone willing to come to Bowling Green once a week and give lessons. Im sure the students are out there wanting to learn. I own a funeral home here and have one room set up with all my instruments in. I would have no problem offering someone to use my room to give lessons. I currently have two steels set up, my Franklin and my Sho Bud D12, but have just bought a S10 Sho Bud. I have a daughter who will be 7 next month, and is ready and willing to take piano lessons. I have been teaching her a little mandolin and she is very eager. I would love to see her get some basics and move on to steel. Zane, if you want to come up and give some lessons, let me know and Ill help you get it set up. You wouldnt need to bring anything...like i said all of my equipment is set up.
_________________
Michael Douchette's Franklin; Sho~Bud Fingertip D12; Sho Bud S10 6139 Serial #2911;1973 Fender Twin Reverb Silverface; Fender Cyber Twin; VZ Custom Telecaster; Epi Les Paul Custom Silverburst; Epi DOT; Copley Acoustic; Copley Acoustic Bass; Hammond E311 Organ; 1941 Chickering Baby Grand Piano, formerly owned by John Prine; 1921 Chickering Baby Grand 100th Anniv Quarter Grand |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 8:10 pm
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Zane, this is a great thread. Thanks for thinking of this topic and posting it. Jamie, as for exposure I don't think there is any appropriate age other than go by the level of interest that the child displays.I believe in always giving the child the opportunity, let them see and hear the instrument and letting them try it out whenever they want to. The main thing is to have the tools available to them if one day they show interest. Look at my two grand daughters, Kate 5 and Chloe 3. Not much there yet but they are shown the instrument and given the opportunity to "play" when ever they are here.
I think that this early exposure to the steel is a valuable thing for them to have.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Jamie Stoner
From:
Bowling Green, Kentucky
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Posted 22 Aug 2010 8:22 pm
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mine have really gotten into watching the youtube videos with me and being able to recognize the sound of the steel on different songs. My little ones are 7,5,3,2...and all girls. The older ones are 16,15,14, and 12...two girls and two boys. The oldest girl lives with me, the other three with their mom. None the less, im still trying to get them all interested in some type of instrument. My little girls can go from watching Hannah Montana to watching a youtube video of Apartment #9 or Farewell Party so I think it is great that they like it...
_________________
Michael Douchette's Franklin; Sho~Bud Fingertip D12; Sho Bud S10 6139 Serial #2911;1973 Fender Twin Reverb Silverface; Fender Cyber Twin; VZ Custom Telecaster; Epi Les Paul Custom Silverburst; Epi DOT; Copley Acoustic; Copley Acoustic Bass; Hammond E311 Organ; 1941 Chickering Baby Grand Piano, formerly owned by John Prine; 1921 Chickering Baby Grand 100th Anniv Quarter Grand |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 23 Aug 2010 5:10 am
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Zane my innovative friend!!!,,,this thread sets my heart on fire and my mind to racing forward at warp speed!!!!,,,,This is EXACTLY what it is going to take to keep our instrument alive. And as we all know, the lack of instruction is a huge reason for the low numbers of young people starting,,,,but even more of a factor is the COST of getting started. I mean, where is a young person going to to get 1000 to 3000 bucks to get started? My overwhelming suggestion would be for a young person to start the same way the greats did,,,on lap steel,,,8 string! Very minimal cost and limitless possibilities,,,,and I can say unequivocally that my lap steels taught me more about the 6th side of my tuning,,,and steel harmonies in general than all my 20 odd years of "messing" with pedals.
In another thread I read about "burn out",,,which I have now,,,and I think you've been going through. This idea may be just what us old burnt out guys need,,,and a lot of us are in a position (financially)now to help young people get started.
Great endeavor my friend!!!!!! |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 23 Aug 2010 5:26 am
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Another thought,,,,I think there are 3 majors factors hindering young people from leaning toward steel guitar,,
1. Lack of instruction
2. Cost of getting started
3. ,,,and that great gulf called a "musical generation gap" between young people and those that are in a position to help. Can those that CAN help really maintain a young persons interest,,,,generally speaking. |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 23 Aug 2010 5:52 am
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Sonny - great thoughts! You are accurate on the 3 factors prohibiting more students on our instrument. Here is my approach....
First, I have been thinking about this "gift" that God gave me for quite sometime now. It's the old to whom much is given much is required. It would be a fruitless effort for me to try and change the steel guitar community as we know it with my tuning and creative innovations. Sure, I have stirred up a great deal of interest and it appears many are already willing to change and implement some of my ideas. I'm elated and honored and I can't wait to dive even deeper as I structure my ideas.
It occurred to me that if I am really going to contribute that I need to find a way to inspire those generations behind me. My life now is devoted to helping children across the world who live in abstract poverty. With Compassion's help I'm even looking into endeavors in 3rd world countries because at every program we have in 26 countries we have a musical training. Because music is a universal language that obviously breaks down barriers. This is EXCITING! Now here in the states, I envision launching programs with organizations and schools that will inspire kids to not only get involved with music locally but can also vision themselves participating in the international endeavors. Almost like an exchange program but not nearly as lengthy. Honestly, this is huge stuff and someone must larger than me is guiding this process.
So items #1 (lack of instruction) and #2 (costs) are manageable to me. You are right Sonny many folks now have the resources to give whether it be time or money or both. They just want to know though when they do participate that it is making a measurable difference. This may lead to me actually setting up my steel guitar "school" as a non-profit entity.
#3 is a bit more difficult and very valid. However, all that takes is for us to find the extraordinarily gifted young people (and we will) and then promote them to the masses. Those talented young boys and girls will become our business card. I've learned this approach over the past 5 years as I have studied how "change" comes about in small poor communities across the world. It comes from within. Give a man a fish and you feed him for day....teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime. That concept is as old as the hills BUT it works.
Can you imagine the impact this "schooling" approach with steel guitar can have on our young people? I'm so excited right now I can't even stand it. CANDIDLY - I feel humbled here because I do think I've just opened a window here to something that is way BEYOND me. Yet, I may have been chosen to lead this campaign. It's sort of like finally finding out why I sit behind a steel guitar and it opens up to me like a blooming rose. To be honest, I've always liked PIANO better than steel guitar, but my gifting is simply not slanted that way. It's beginning to make sense to me now.
It may need to be a different thread....BUT I WANT TO ESTABLISH A LIST OF PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERESTED IN MY ENDEAVOR INTO TEACHING, INSPIRING, AND PROVIDING SCHOOLING FOR YOUNG PEOPLE ON THE STEEL GUITAR!!! SERIOUSLY, LET ME KNOW WHO ARE....I WILL START A LIST TODAY.....AND BY THE WAY....NO EXPERIENCE LEVEL IS REQUIRED ONLY A HEART AND LOVE FOR OUR INSTRUMENT!
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Jamie Stoner
From:
Bowling Green, Kentucky
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Posted 23 Aug 2010 5:59 am
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I have inspired a 16 yr old in Iowa to purchase the new starter package Bobbe has listed for sale. Now he needs instruction...so if there is anyone near Waterloo Iowa willing to teach, i have a student that is ready to learn. Once again Zane if someone is willing to use my location in Bowling Green as a center for learning, they are more than welcome to it. I have probably two students right now that would be willing to start.....just some thoughts.
_________________
Michael Douchette's Franklin; Sho~Bud Fingertip D12; Sho Bud S10 6139 Serial #2911;1973 Fender Twin Reverb Silverface; Fender Cyber Twin; VZ Custom Telecaster; Epi Les Paul Custom Silverburst; Epi DOT; Copley Acoustic; Copley Acoustic Bass; Hammond E311 Organ; 1941 Chickering Baby Grand Piano, formerly owned by John Prine; 1921 Chickering Baby Grand 100th Anniv Quarter Grand |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 23 Aug 2010 6:04 am
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Jamie, that's awesome! I'm still developing these concepts but quickly! Stay tuned!
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Jamie Stoner
From:
Bowling Green, Kentucky
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Posted 23 Aug 2010 6:10 am
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Zane if you want to come up sometime to see what i have to offer, just let me know. Id be glad to show you! The other instruments I have available and set up are....mandolin, fiddle, banjo, two baby grand pianos...some electric guitars, acoustic guitar and bass, and a trio of amps...so it doesnt have to be just steel...I have always loved teaching...gave guitar lessons years ago, but am just not in a position to have the time available to devote to teaching like i wish I could...
_________________
Michael Douchette's Franklin; Sho~Bud Fingertip D12; Sho Bud S10 6139 Serial #2911;1973 Fender Twin Reverb Silverface; Fender Cyber Twin; VZ Custom Telecaster; Epi Les Paul Custom Silverburst; Epi DOT; Copley Acoustic; Copley Acoustic Bass; Hammond E311 Organ; 1941 Chickering Baby Grand Piano, formerly owned by John Prine; 1921 Chickering Baby Grand 100th Anniv Quarter Grand |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 23 Aug 2010 11:52 pm Re: Future of the Steel Guitar. Who are the next GREATS?
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| Zane King wrote: |
| ...My guess is many start with something as inexpensive as possible just to see if they believe they are going to like it. I would like to hear about your beginning experience. Was that with a new or used instrument? If my hunch is correct then most people are using something used and that limits them to whatever setup is likely on it.... |
Zane,
I just started playing steel five short years ago. I'm 47. Bought a used Carter Starter on eBay from Alaska. It arrived in San Antonio, and off I went.
I've been playing guitar since I was 14, and play many different instruments, but I had never even seen a pedal steel guitar up close...ever, let alone played one!
I don't know what compelled me, probably hearing good country music after moving from New Jersey to Texas! Hearing guys like Paul Franklin with Dire Straits years ago put a seed in the ground, and lately Robert Randolph was also influential in making that desire grow.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. Had I seen and had the opportunity to play one at 14, I very well might have had a huge head start. I really wish I did, I'd have 33 years of experience on this thing by now! 
Clete |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 24 Aug 2010 4:30 am
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Clete,
Thanks for sharing! So when you got your Carter that was the first time you had even seen a steel up close? WOW!
I hope in time there are a lot more of those Paul/Dire Straights and Robert Randolph's examples.
Zane
_________________
Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2010 2:14 pm
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well, not to be contrarian, I think that the differences in tunings and setups are one of the things that makes this instrument more appealing, not less. If someone feels inspired to crank those keys off to some "oddball" anti-establishment original tuning, it only increases the likelihood of there being new and original music coming out eventually.
I'm pushing 53, so I was in the height of "musical sensitivity" (urp, high school... ) in the mid-70's when the corporate rock model began to standardize rock guitar tones, chord changes and song styles. Ick.
To my mind, the ability to first pick out other people's melodies, then use that knowledge to generate your own, is almost entirely independent of a specific tuning - once you know guitar, for example, and know how you learn, picking up steel or mandolin or somesuch isn't really a problem, it just takes work. To paraphrase David Lindley, don't play the tuning, play the song...
In my own S10 C6th world, I find myself more and more drawn to the ambiguous 2nds and 4ths these days, and I'm seriously considering laying out a "3rd-free" tuning. If 94% of musicians are copying the other 6%, where do you want to be? |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 24 Aug 2010 2:26 pm
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Great comments David! I appreciate your input on our thread here. I'm thinking on that statement "don' play the tuning, play the song".
I once had a great instructor at Berklee tell me learn everything you can, study, practice, copy....then forget everything you know and just play!
_________________
Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Stephen Cordingley
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Aug 2010 7:41 pm
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I know I'm about to step in it big time, but here goes...
From my experience as a teacher, the prospective student has to be drawn to the song/music, not just the instrument.
If pedal steel versions of CURRENT popular songs (be it Hannah Montanna, or Lady Gaga, or Eminem, or whomever) were readily available (and somewhat simplifed for the beginner), then young people might be attracted to the instrument in significant numbers.
I'm 50, and stuff from the 70's (Beatles etc.) seems to be the most "modern" tab I come across...
I don't expect the traditional players to go out of their way to produce tabs etc. just for prospective young players.
The onus, it seems to me, is on the makers of the instruments to produce these resources to promote the sales of their products. In the early 20th century, pianos became more popular when sheet music of current (usually dance) tunes was readily available; later that century, lap steel and hawaiian guitars enjoyed a wave of popularity when the instrument makers produced sheet music and instructional courses.
If a young person could plunk out Rihanna's litle ditty about her umbrella, maybe the psg could catch on like Leo Fender's surf instruments did in the 60's.
As for the cost of the instrument, and the non standardized tunings, I dunno ...(ironic that Robert Randolph uses a unique tuning, which limits the "rock and psg connection")
No offense intended to those trad psg folks who like their Nashville twang and western swing, but this is what I've been thinking... |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 25 Aug 2010 12:54 am
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| David Mason wrote: |
| well, not to be contrarian, I think that the differences in tunings and setups are one of the things that makes this instrument more appealing, not less. ... |
Absolutely agree.
I was glad to have started on the Starter "fixed" tuning and coped though. All I concentrated on E9 at first was tuning it properly, and playing it properly.
I didn't have to think about why it was tuned that way, just try and figure out how to make music with it. I just accepted it as a "standard" or Emmons-like setup. Later I saw all the variations of tunings, number of strings, copedents etc. on the myriad of pedal and non pedal tunings.
After a year or two, I began to want a "pro" model, justy to compare. The Mullen I bought is a beauty of a 1.5 width SD10 3X4 which I later added a LKV B lower to. I still play this one live, mostly because its relatively light haha. I haven't toted my D-10 out yet, but between that and the U-12, I have learned first hand of the differences in tunings, and their similarities.
Needless to say, I am very interested in your alternate tuning Zane.
Please post a link to your copedent.
Clete |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 25 Aug 2010 6:30 pm
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Clete,
There are several threads about my tuning but they are likely fairly buried by now. Posting them here is not very good because of the sizing. I'll be happy to email them to you. Just pm with your email address. Or fairly soon I will have them on my new website.
Stay tuned,
Zane
_________________
Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 25 Aug 2010 7:24 pm
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Clete - look under the Pedal Steel section now. My thread is called "Zane King's E 6/9 Tuning Charts and Links. Just email me if you want larger versions of the copedents.
Zane
_________________
Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2010 8:11 pm
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After reading some of your stuff,which is very inspiring I have a thread up about female players,so far not one bite.I found that a little disturbing.I have taught kids and gave them guitars and so on. Still do.I wonder some times,Are we on an island here?I had a kid tonite ask me to teach him to play the psg.I got up and found him some picks and said lets go.My wife is a school teacher and a picker.So our prospectives are boundless.I would like to see more ladies playing because they seem to be able to teach better than I.
_________________
Gibson Les Paul
Reverend Avenger
Paul Reed Smith
Fender Telecaster
MSA S10 Classic
ShoBud
Old Peavy Amps |
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2010 8:14 pm
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After reading some of your stuff,which is very inspiring I have a thread up about female players,so far not one bite.I found that a little disturbing.I have taught kids and gave them guitars and so on. Still do.I wonder some times,Are we on an island here?I had a kid tonite ask me to teach him to play the psg.I got up and found him some picks and said lets go.My wife is a school teacher and a picker.So our prospectives are boundless.I would like to see more ladies playing because they seem to be able to teach better than I.
_________________
Gibson Les Paul
Reverend Avenger
Paul Reed Smith
Fender Telecaster
MSA S10 Classic
ShoBud
Old Peavy Amps |
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