| Author |
Topic: How do you bend your fingerpicks, and hold your RH? |
John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
|
Posted 29 Apr 2010 10:35 am |
|
Ok, enough with the academic discussions, now back to trying to get practical advice from this group.
I'm wondering two things I don't hear about much. I know the opinions will be varied, but I'm interested to know the differing viewpoints.
1) How do you bend your fingerpicks? Hard right angle up? Almost straight with no bend at all? Something in between? The only material I've ever seen on this is Joe Wright's advice on the getting-started DVD that came with my Carter Starter, where he said you want the fingerpick to slope upward like the natural curve of your fingertip. [EDIT: But Bruce Bouton's fingerpicks look like they extend an inch straight up, perpendicular from his fingertips.] I notice that I sometimes miss the string with my fingerpick, and instead my fingertip hits it instead. I assume this is a common problem for us beginners, but it's starting to discourage me after a year. Can bending the fingerpick a certain way avoid this?
2) How do you hold your right hand? Relaxed? In a fist? Pinky straight out? As if you're holding a tennis ball? I find I sometimes tense up my hand when doing repetitive exercises, and that I do better by letting it relax, with my ring and pinky extended, but I have to concentrate to do this - it doesn't come naturally. This can obviously make a difference in blocking, esp. palm. Also, I try the hold-a-tennis-ball RH stance, but find my middle finger seems too far away from the strings to do a good TMTMTMTM run.
Some of this I know comes with time, but after a year of playing/learning, I fear I may be developing bad habits with this technique which will be hard to undo later.
_________________
Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
|
|
 |
Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
|
Posted 29 Apr 2010 11:29 am
|
|
Here is a link to a clip from a show called SoundBoard that I did back in 1983 that shows how I hold my right hand when playing both Dobro and Steel.
My picks are pretty much straight up past the ends of my fingers.
I learned alot of my right hand from watching Jay Dee at the Palamino Club in North Hollwood back in the early 70's when I was starting out and as such, I guess you would say I'm "flat-handed" with both ring & pinky curled under.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOebF7l-6no
Hope this help you.
JE:-)>
_________________
Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons S-10PP 3/4 - 79'
Emmons S-12PP 3/4 -78'
MSA Legend SD12 5/5 -06'
Mullen S-12 4/5 - 1986
Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
Walker SS rack system - 12"BW's
Quilter Steelaire Combo |
|
|
|
John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
|
Posted 29 Apr 2010 11:42 am
|
|
Wow, that's nuts. I've been trying almost the exact opposite it appears - I guess I should stay at the drawing board. Thanks for the helpful reply, too. I bet I could cut down on missing strings with that approach. Great sounding clips, btw.
_________________
Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
|
|
|
James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
|
|
|
|
Bryan Daste
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
|
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 29 Apr 2010 2:56 pm
|
|
| Another vote for the Jeff Newman method. You can buy the finger picks from Jeffran as well. They come to your already bent correctly, all you have to do is adjust the ring part to fit your finger size. |
|
|
|
Bill Thomin
From:
Ohio, USA
|
|
|
|
Roy Dick
From:
Tahlequah okla. USA
|
Posted 29 Apr 2010 6:49 pm finger picks
|
|
Definately Jeff Newmans right hand alpha. i have it and i have been playin about four years with terrible habits. it is not easy but important. Maybe some one can post a link if you are interested
_________________
Fessenden SD10, Peavy Nashville 112, Fender Fat Strat, Crate glx 212, Crate GLX 65, Peavy foundation bass, Epiphone flat top Taylor flat top Epiphone Led Paul Epiphone Shreraton Hilton and Goodrich pedals one understanding wife |
|
|
|
Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
|
Posted 29 Apr 2010 11:34 pm Picks
|
|
I use National NP2 picks. I used needle nosed pliers to put a bend in the ring part, so they grasp my fingers at my cudicles,are are oval. The top end is bent slightly, resembling a natural fingernail flow.This leaves a large amount of the pick, away from the fingertips.
I've only got 4 years in steel playing, but I "lean" toward the Newman style palm blocking. I cannot do it like him, but I use some of his stuff,and make it work my way.
With 3 picks I keep the pinky & ring fingers under. When I use 4, I keep the pinky out to block.
remember: it don't come easy, so keep on practicing.
Rick |
|
|
|
David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
|
Posted 30 Apr 2010 6:00 am
|
|
John,
There is NOT a completely right way to hold your right hand, if you watch Great players, they all have a bit different way of the right hands workings..I have found that your right hand will find it's "own" niche
in time..for some it comes fast, others, slow...each individual is different...bottom line .......Practice.....remember you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make him drink.. and right hand is a BIG key to playing steel guitar..  |
|
|
|
Morton Kellas
From:
Chazy, NY, USA 1
|
Posted 30 Apr 2010 7:48 am
|
|
| David, you are very "Wright" I always enjoy your playing and your tone. |
|
|
|
Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
|
Posted 30 Apr 2010 9:20 am
|
|
I'm finally using a teacher, and thus trying to correct some bad habits that have developed. I now bend the ends of the picks upward to the same angle of the finger tips. I also position my right hand so the top knuckle on my index finger is the highest point on the hand. Palm blocking is what I thought I did well, and the most of. Wrong. I naturally developed pick blocking, which is great, but palm blocking is really helping me a lot. I now line the top picking string(s) up with the "life line" on the palm, and practice. Wow the blocking is slowly beginning to improve!
_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
|
|
|
John Swindle
From:
Oregon, USA
|
Posted 30 Apr 2010 10:32 am
|
|
Hi, John
I'm pretty much a beginner, too. I've fooled with non-pedal instruments for about five years, and pedal steel for a little over six months.
About the problem of missing strings with a pick and hitting a different string with the finger tip - that bothered me every time I tried to use picks. It was such a nuisance that I went for long periods without using them.
I found something that helped, and it was a surprise because it didn't seem logical that it would have this effect. I coated the upper part of my picks with liquid plastic - you may know it as "tool dip". I had read here on the forum that such a coating would make the picks more comfortable and stay in place better. It did that, but the problem of "fingertip disorientation" virtually disappeared, too. Maybe it's because the coated pick comes to feel sorta like a part of your finger. I saw a big improvement right away, and then got better with practice.
You can get the stuff at hardware stores. Grip a pick with pliers, by the part that touches the strings. Dip and coat the part of the pick that wraps around your finger, leaving the string-contact area uncoated. Use something like Scotch Tape to hang them up to dry. Good luck! |
|
|
|
Mike Schwartzman
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 30 Apr 2010 11:10 am
|
|
| Quote: |
I fear I may be developing bad habits with this technique which will be hard to undo later.
|
That was my exact thought in my first few months, John.
Coming to the pedal steel sort of later in life I figured if I grooved some bad habits it would be harder and longer to unlearn them. When I say "bad habits" I mean putting my right hand in a position to make palm blocking more difficult to learn...so I kinda went the more conservative route and adhered to the "Right Hand Alpha" technique for right hand position and for the way to bend and wear picks as well. Two years later I'm still thinking it was a good way to go.
Last Nov. I had a lesson with Buddy Charleton, and he made some adjustments with my left hand on the bar, but he was OK with my right hand position and my picks. That's my experience so far.
_________________
Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele. |
|
|
|
Walter Bowden
From:
Wilmington, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 7:18 am
|
|
I too am trying to learn good right hand basics and find Newman's Right Hand Alpha very good. He instructs us to use a natural crease line on the palm to keep the hand over the string(s) you are picking. This keeps the hand consistent and the wrist at the right angle. Someone on the forum suggested learning to keep your right arm next to your body by holding a magazine tucked between the arm and body while playing.
However, like a lot of subjective topics here on the forum, opinions about right hand picking styles vary, and if you look how Doug Jernigan uses his right hand compared to Buddy Emmons, you will see two different techniques used to produce incredible playing.
For myself, I am using the Newman/Emmons right hand style to re-learn this instrument. I remember taking one of Jeff Newman's week long courses and he told me to pretend I am holding an egg in my right hand to develop the desired curve of the thumb, index and middle fingers. I don't believe that having your ring and pinky fingers tucked in or left out mattered as much to him as the elbow in, forearm straight out and wrist angled he demonstrates on Right Hand Alpha. Best wishes and good luck.
_________________
Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical |
|
|
|
Bob Kagy
From:
Lafayette, CO USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 1:22 pm
|
|
| Another vote for the Jeff Newman Right Hand Alpha video - it helped me immensely in modifying, improving, and speeding up my right hand fluency. |
|
|
|
Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 2:31 pm
|
|
over the years i have tended to keep bending them until now they are almost touching my fingernails
just my 2 cents
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
|
|
|
Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
|
Posted 3 May 2010 9:44 am How the pros shape their picking hand
|
|
Back to John's original excellent question about how to shape fingerpicks and hold one's hand, I believe that David Wright hit the nail on the head--there is no "one correct way" to shape one's picks or hold one's hand. And how you shape your hand will dictate how you shape your picks.
While some people on the Forum seem to get very caught up in how their hand-shape LOOKS, I believe that it is far more important to focus on how the notes SOUND.
Your hand-shape depends on whether you plan to palm-block or pick-block or both, the size and shape of your hands, and how you position yourself at the steel.
The flexibility of the tendons in your hand tends to dictate if you can shape your hand like Lloyd Green and Tom Brumley with their little fingers straight out. That style looks very cool--but it is NOT the "ONLY CORRECT" way to hold your hand.
Sometimes it's tiny details that matter. For example, I've found it very important to slightly angle the top of my guitar so that my hand and wrist are EXACTLY parallel with the strings. If they are not, then my blocking and speed suffer. The degree of angling depends on the height of your seat and the length from your shoulder to your elbow. Small but crucial details.
It might be useful to find a good teacher to help you with some of these small but critical details.
I'd also suggest Joe Wright's video on palm and pick blocking, since he thoroughly analyzes all of these elements and provides excellent blocking exercises.
There are a number of clips on YouTube showing how some of the great players hold their hands and shape their picks. BTW, none of these great players hold their hand like Lloyd or Tom. 
A few favorites:
Hal Rugg & Buddy Spicher - 1972 - Deep Water (Good closeups of Hal's hands)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbg9F5blMpk&feature=related
The Desert Rose Band - Hello Trouble (with Jay Dee Maness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAENUcHceZ4
Linda Ronstadt Silver Threads at Tenn State Prison (with Buddy E.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUDbCK-R17g
[Keep in mind that Mr. Emmons has a unique method of blocking, so his hand-shape is quite different than most other players.]
And check out Barbara Mandrell's pick-blocking (with borrowed picks!) on Barbara Mandrell -- Blue Bonnett Blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2WGso5Yhpo&feature=related
- Dave |
|
|
|
John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
|
Posted 4 May 2010 6:36 am
|
|
Thanks for all the great and helpful replies. Yes, I knew (or at lease suspected) there was no one, single, end-all, be-all way. As I said, I was interested to hear the various replies. I think y'all may have talked me into buying my first Jeffran product (which looks like an expensive habit).
Thanks for the great clips, too.
The one thing I can say I'm doing right is practicing every day. Right now, I'm trying to spend equal time on palm- and pick-blocking exercises.
_________________
Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
|
|
|
John Burton
From:
Manassas, Va
|
Posted 4 May 2010 9:36 am
|
|
First off: I'm a newbie to pedal
Now I used to do it differently, and it felt all right, but about a month or so ago I took a few lessons from Buddy Charleton.
The FIRST thing (after we tuned up)Mr. Charleton did was ask to see my finger picks, (nationals) and then he proceeded to bend them, against the wall, hand them back for test fit and repeated, curling the pick part so it rolled around more and basically covered the end off my finger. (think "thimble" more then pick..it's hard to describe without a photo..)
Not protruding flat, or even extending much past the end-tip of the finger.
I had never tried this before, in the past I always had them protruding straighter and past my finger tips.
He then spent time with how to hold my thumb, out as if I'm pushing in a thumbtack..and how to basically curl the two fingers with picks as if I'm palming a small ball.. (then the pick shape began to make more sense) the ring finger is also curled to aid in blocking the middle finger...pinkie extended to block with edge of hand..elbow pulled in to body..
Anyway, it all of course felt awkward..I was used to doing it my way..BUT after a week of practice using his tips..I noticed significant progress in my playing! Both in tone and blocking and speed.
Keeping my hands and elbows using this technique still sometimes requires thought and doesn't yet come completely natural and automatic, but it's getting there!
I'm sure there's lots of other ways to do it, different strokes..but copying what Buddy showed me really did work after I kept at it.
I'm guess I'm saying if you do adopt some new techniques in your blocking, picking etc. ..Make sure you give your self time in the seat to really evaluate it before dismissing it as not for you. |
|
|
|
Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 4 May 2010 10:30 am
|
|
I've been following this thread, and just saw this video of Paul Franklin which was posted in the "Steel on the Web" forum section. At the end of this video we get a few close ups of Paul's right hand. Starting at about 4:30 in the video, when he really takes off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSkyHhEhGk4&feature=channel
Ultimately this question about pick shapes, position of the right hand, and so forth, comes down to what feels and sounds right to you as a player... but, it never hurts to take some input from a pro like Mr. Franklin. Plus this is just amazing playing in this video!
One thing my teacher pointed out to me when I was taking lessons was that my right hand would sometimes ball up (almost a fist), and that it was angled too much to the left... He made me relax it a little and point my hand more toward the front, and I noticed a difference in tone as well as less fatigue when playing for longer periods of time. I occasionally catch myself letting it ball up too much, and force myself to relax it and it usually helps my playing.
btw I use the JF finger picks, and bend them quite a bit... works pretty well for me.
_________________
Carter U-12, Williams U-12, Peavey NV112, 1970 Fender Twin, Les Paul Studio Deluxe II, Fender MIM Tele, Hilton volume, Peterson tuner, George L's cables, BJS bars, Macbook, Alesis io26. |
|
|
|
Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
|
Posted 4 May 2010 3:01 pm
|
|
Excellent clip of "The Walk of Life", Randy.
The camera works is superb (as is Paul's playing)!
Much of so-called "pick-blocking" is not literally done with the picks--as Joe Wright explains in his videos--and Paul demonstrates here.
If you pause the clip at 4:48 and advance it very slowly to 4:52, you can actually see Paul blocking the higher strings with his fingertips as he moves to the lower strings.
This helps to explain why he holds his picking hand the way he does.
Another clip showing Paul's right and left hand techniques (at an unbelievable tempo) is:
The New Nashville Cats on Tnn- "Pick It Apart"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyR99JCXJMw&NR=1
-Dave |
|
|
|
John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
|
Posted 21 Feb 2011 9:33 pm Learnging JNewman at last
|
|
Resurrecting an old thread.
Just wanted to say I pulled the trigger at long last on Jeffran and got Right Hand Alpha, and am finding it to have earned its reputation on here, especially in this thread. Totally worth it. I may jump on one of the Up from the Top DVDs next. Thanks for the recommendation and again for all the tips and thoughts.
_________________
Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
|
|
|
