I Put the Tab in the Closet and Locked The Door

Pat Carlson · From: Sutton, Nebraska, R.I.P.

After searching this forum,I,am going to change my ways! Confused

My playing expierience has been playing from tab by others that I have spent many hours memorizing! Whoa!

Recently we formed a little praise band at church,and performed a medley of I saw the light,I'll fly away, and when the Saints Go Marching In.All in the Key of G. I had one of these in my tab library but it was in the Key of Eb.
So I set about writing my own tab for the 3 songs of the medley in the key of G. I had about a month but worked through it fine.
And yes it sticks in my mind more clearly than others memorized by Tab from others
It was said in another thread if all you can do is play by tab you have no business on the bandstand Whoa!

Last summer I went to Joe Wrights, teaching seminar in Branson and he did not speak highly of playing from Tab as some of you Pros on here have stated. At this time it seems a bit overwhelming.
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The Lone Prairie Steeler Pat

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

Tab only uses ten percent of your brain, and, since most people only use ten percent anyway, 10% x 10% = 1%.

Learn the chords in one key, such as the key of G (G, Am, Bm, C, D, D7, Em, and F# diminished), and the G major scales at the third fret and at the tenth fret. Then improvise!!! All the other major keys are exactly the same -- they just start at different frets, but all the patterns are the same. If you study tab, all you know is one song. If you study music theory, you can play any song!
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Being well grounded in music theory has likely not held back ANYONE wanting to be heavily involved in making music.

HOWEVER.......steel guitarists have been awarded a rare gift and failure by anyone for whatever reason to take advantage of it, is a supreme sacrifice of musical pleasure........

Like has been previously said above, KNOW THE CHORD positions for a simple 3-chord song. F, B flat, F, C/C7th and lastly F. That progression is similar to coutless country songs! If you know it, you can play anywhere up or down the neck and play the same fret intervals and you'll be right inside the loop with the big boys. No confusion........just fun.

MEMORIZATION is an entirely seperate ballgame. Writing out tab is another; and transposing tab to another key is just another step toward futility.
KNOWING what you're doing is the answer.

steve takacs · From: beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)

Any players who want to toss out their old TABs can send them to my North Dakota address. Just email me and I'll provide the address.

I'm a fim believer that tab, along with knowledge of chords, progressions, scales, & improvisaion to tracks, and sharpening one's listening & copying the sounds, technique, etc. all have their place in learning & progessing with the steel guitar.

For me, they cut down the time it takes to learn, even though I do not try to play it exacly like shown in the TAB. I look at the TAB and attempt to relate it to chords, scales, & progressions. The older I get, the more shortcuts I wish to take, if you know what I mean. steve t

Richard Gonzales · From: Davidson, NC USA

Amen, Steve !!

Ben Lawson · From: Brooksville Florida

I use tab from time to time to learn a song. It's seldom in the key that the band sings in so I agree with Barry. Learn it where ever the tab is written and move it to where it's sung in your group. There are only a few keys that are a little more difficult to change for me. Eb on E9th and B on C6th.
We have three girl singers who NEVER sing in the same key as the recording or the tab.
I did get lucky with tab on "Married to a Waitress".
(Thanks to Ricky Davis) I even asked Paul Franklin if he tabbed it out and he said he didn't but the tab on the forum was very close. I still switched it around a bit "cause I ain't Paul" but even the band didn't notice the difference.

Dave Diehl · From: Mechanicsville, MD, USA

Tabs are great if you use them wisely and don't lock yourself onto them. I have found that there is a whole other world of steel guitar when you put them aside, listen to the melody of the song, and write your own tab. I was taught that personally from Jeff Newman. When you start building your own tab it begins to build onto itself and you train yourself to listen well and think and not limit your ability. Again, nothing in the world wrong with tab as long as we let that control us. Like the tail wagging the dog concept.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Tab is a great tool to learn but it should not be used as a crutch. Think of tab like a road map, at first you don't know your way but after awhile the way becomes familiar, the extra turns and short cuts should become part of the normal routine. At first we may have needed a road map to drive across town but eventually you know various ways to drive across town, even if you do not know the street names you do know where to turn.

Tab, same thing, eventually the connection should be made with the positions and the chord structure, if it's not, you are basically just looking at the map and not paying attention to the relative positions the tab is laying out with regard to the structure of the song. I think we get so wrapped up in learning the licks we forget to learn where they come from.

The great thing about Pedal Steel is that with Pedals in or Pedals out, the commonality of phrases ( road map) for any key is sitting right in front of us.

Tab is a wonderful tool but if we are using it to just learn a song and not the "foundation" of the song, then we are just playing by dots and not actually studying.

just my take

tp
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Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

PLAYING A SONG THE SAME WAY MORE THAN ONCE IS A SIN!!!!!!! IMPROVISE, DON'T MEMORIZE!!!!!!!
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I often say that playing (only) by tab is like painting by numbers. People will observe the output and think that you are a great artist ("He's as good as Buddy Emmons!" "He's as good as Renoir!"), but only you know your dirty little secret, which is that you're totally clueless and couldn't create anything like that on your own if you tried. Now, if that satisfies you (and for some people that is enough), then that's fine. Enjoy. But if you have any higher aspirations, you've got to get off the tab and learn to create on your own. Surely there are things to learn from tab (lord knows, I've bought -- and written -- my share of it) but you can't stop there if you really want to be a player.
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Dave Diehl · From: Mechanicsville, MD, USA

You are so right Barry. I often tab a song out one way... then as I continue to work on it, I find another way which sounds as good or better... then another.... then another and before I know it, I can't decide which way I want to do it.

Chuck Thompson · From: Illinois, USA

There was a similar thread a few months ago and it got me think about my scattered approach to learning this crazy instrument. 3 years ago this week I got a pedal steel and have taken info from anywhere i can get it. I transfer stuff from guitar. I work on songs from Real Book. I use tab - I steal licks from anywhere and from anyone I can - I lift things from records videos etc.. I wouldnt want to be glued to tab but,I sure wouldnt want to miss out on what i have learned from it either. I use tab to learn a song but also everything I learn from tab i try to put somewhere else. I think mixing it all together in a big stew is a big part of developing personal style. Here is something to explain the mess I make. http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1494191#1494191

Pat Carlson · From: Sutton, Nebraska, R.I.P.

I have Scottys DeLuxe Steel Guitar Method Book and Mike Perlowins Music Theory in the Real World with the supplement for E9th players. Very Happy

Sounds like I better unlock the closet and dig them out again Cool

I have always marveled at steel shows how the singer will call for a song give the Key and time value. The drummer will start it and away they go! Smile

Thanks to everyone for your support and help!
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The Lone Prairie Steeler Pat

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

Patrick -- I am one of those lunatics who will play a song I have never heard before, in front of an audience, on stage. Here's how we do it:

There are only seven basic chords in any normal key, and, as several people have said on this thread, just three of them -- the three major chords -- are used most often. (I, IV, and V -- named after the fact that they are built on the first, fourth, and fifth notes of the scale -- F, Bb, and C or C7 in the key of F, etc.) When the singer calls out the key, I know the chords in that key, and which of them are most likely to pop up. And then (and this is the important part) I can HEAR which of them it is. So I stay in the background for the first verse or two and then I know the song.

Some songs -- most songs actually -- contain borrowed chords that are not in the original key. Hearing these presents a real problem at first until you have played enough songs to see the patterns -- almost always the songwriter has included not any old chord chosen at random, but the same type of borrowed chord that was used in hundreds of other songs. A common example (still in the key of F) would be if there was a G or G7 chord (instead of the Gm chord that is normally in the key of F). I must know 3000 songs that have that particular type of borrowed chord. And once you learn to recognize that sound, then you know just what to do.

So it starts with being able to recognize the I, IV, and V chords by how they sound. Then gradually you get so you can hear the other chords in the key, and, a while after that, the common types of borrowed chords.

This works for most simple country, folk, rock, and bluegrass songs. If it doesn't do the trick, then I look at what the guitar player is playing.

If it is a real complicated jazzy song with lots of unpredictable chords, then I would sit out or ask to see a chart.

The moral of this story? Music theory don't mean a thing until you can HEAR it. As long as it is just words, it doesn't help you actually play. But when you can HEAR the III7 moving to the vi (A7 to Dm in the key of F) then you are ready to really get loose!
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I concur - until you're 'hearing' it for yourself, you're just pretending.

Train your ear until you can name - and play - every change as it happens.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Rick Ulrich · From: Gilbert, Arizona

I just wanted to chime in and say this is one of the better threads I have read on the Forum. I can pretty much agree with everything that has been said here. I took lesssons back in the old days, before pedals, from live human beings. Looking back, I didn't learn as much as I should have. My first teacher was a retired music professor. He didn't know anything about steel guitar, but using a Nick Manoloff book, he could write in the numbers next to the notes showing what frets to play on. I was unhappy because I wasn't learning to play steel guitar the way I saw Speedy West or even Noel Boggs play on television, yes in black and white. After about a year, this professor told my mother that he could do no more for me and that I needed to learn music theory and I should take the piano. Well, I wasn't having any of that, no piano playing for me. Looked around and found a music studio that offered steel guitar. The first teacher I had lasted about 8 weeks. But in those 8 weeks he switched me from A tuning to E tuning and then E7. He also taught me the names of the chords on my guitar and how to read simple melody lines from sheet music. I felt I had made great progress. But after this guy left they put me with another guy that was just a piano player and he would accompany me while I played melodies from sheet music. This went on too long and he was replaced with another guy that was really a good steel player. He introduced me to C#minor and I thought I had died and gone to heaven. In all of this teaching, which took place over 4 years, I learned how to play a pretty good song, but I didn't understand chord construction within a key or how to hear it when listening. I was getting to an age where other things were entering my life and I couldn't afford a pedal steel, so I put everything under the bed. Jump ahead about 35 years and I think I can afford a pedal steel, but I won't know how to play one. I bought one and started messing around with it. Couldn't really figure out how to play it except I had two tunings, E and A when I pushed the AB pedals. Finally heard about Jeff Newman and his material and got some of his stuff. It helped a whole lot and I could play songs again, but when it came to playing in a group and just playing whatever song came up, I was lost. I bought some more tab materials and discovered how they got some of those real cool sounds, but I still couldn't sit in with a group and expect to do anything meaningful. By this time, I am getting pretty old and grey headed, but I discover the Southwest Steel Guitar Association. Through my association there, I get to know quite a number of people interested in steel guitar and I find out that many of them are just like myself. They can sit down and play a song, but sit down with a group and play off the cuff and we are totally lost. Then one day, along comes Wayne Paden, a member of the SWSGA, who happens to make his living playing music, and he invites us old geezers to come and take some lessons from him, free gratis, he just wants to help some old guys try and figure out how to play steel guitar. He asks us what we want to learn and most of us express pretty much the same thing, we want to know how to hear chord changes, listen and figure out what key things are in and just play along with other people. We met together, once a month, over a series of several months, and with that assistance, I can say that I am now learning what I needed to learn about 50 years ago. Learning how to listen, what an idea. Thank you Wayne Paden for your time, talent and patience to put up with us old guys. I can only speak for myself, but learning to listen and learning the chords and playing in pockets, along with the Nashville numbering system really opened up the steel guitar for me. Too bad it took so many years, but thankful that I am where I am today. Thanks to Wayne and all who helped me get there.

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

Double post.

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

I'd like to add this as I have written lots of tabs and sell them on the Forum.

My tabs are basic fake sheet like tabs with the words and sometimes the music staff if I have it available for those who can read music along with rhythm tracks to practice the song.

I have found from the hundreds of emails I have recieved that many new players like my approach.

I give them the basic song so they can play it.
I leave the improvisation and expansion to the player.
I don't want them to copy my tabs note for note and lick for lick.

I would hope after they run through my tab they will continue to play the songs in their own style.

Even myself I don't play the song the same way everytime I sit down to play it. I experiment with different chords changes and inversions.
This is how you learn to be a better player.
Don

Ward Skinner · From: Mission, TX * R.I.P.

Bar Road Chords, I like 'em. Smile

Bobby Burns · From: Tennessee, USA

Barry is absolutely right. Music theory don't mean a thing to you, until you can hear it. I always thought that teaching someone to memorize theory before they can hear basic chord changes, is about like teaching a kid to spell Mama before they can say Mama or recognize her.

Stuart Legg · Posted 4 Nov 2009 1:29 am

Players who don't know theory scare the the crap out of me when I'm trying to communicate what I want in my song and I know they don't have a clue what I'm talking about.
If I have to play it for a player so he can hear what I want why would I need him?

Bobby Burns · From: Tennessee, USA

Stuart, I think you missed the point here. I'm sure you understand both the sound you want, and understand how to explain it theoretically. But, how many times have you known a person, who learned all the chord formulas, scales and theory-speak, sounded really musically intelligent, and still could not hear when to change to the 2 minor? Of course, it's always best to play with the guy who knows how to play and understands how to talk about it. I prefer to play with guys who know it better than I do, but I'd prefer the guy who can play, over the guy who can talk about it, if I had to choose one over the other.

Stuart Legg · Posted 4 Nov 2009 3:29 pm

Bobby, I'd like to have a dollar for every time one of these play only by ear hotshot pickers play some half asd minor scale and minor chord because they didn't hear the chord as a major7. Another 50 cents for every time they alternate between a 1 chord and a 4 chord because that's the way they hear a suspended 4 and a nickle each for every other thing that their ears lie to them about. I'd be a millionaire.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

The well-rounded musician can play by ear AND can play what's written on the page AND can improvise given the chords and structure.

Theory without an ear is worthless, an ear without theory is only a little better. Learning to read will open up your horizons.
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