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Topic: playing blues and rock on the C6th neck |
Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 6:10 pm |
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The country band I'm playing in does some blues and rock songs, and I'm looking to get away from the E9th sound for those tunes. I've heard some cool rock/blues stuff played on C6th, but I don't know how to do it...every time I play the back neck, I can't get away from the swing sound, which is cool for classic country kinda stuff, but doesn't work for rock or blues...
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks
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www.pedalsteel.ca |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 7:29 pm
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| Players very familiar with playing the 6th neck can do blues/rock well just by skipping the 6th, or raising it to a 7th. It's no more difficult than skipping the 9th on E9. A 6th neck works really well for that T-Bone Walker West Coast blues stuff like Stormy Monday. But for Chicago style I prefer E9. Just use the pedals to change chords, not to slur notes, and think of slide guitar riffs. On my uni I can go back and forth. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 7:32 pm
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Not much to go on. Is it only the steel-sound that isn't right for the blues/rock, or your playing-style?
Sound-wise; most steel PU tend to sound closer to that of a guitar if loaded really hard - lowering the impedance. For instance: when I short signal to earth with a 5-25 Kohm resistor, my steel loses much of its typical steel sound, harmonics and sustain, sounding a bit more harsh and el-guitar-like. My steel is an S10 twin-tuned E9, giving me the tonal range of a Universal, and the more guitar-like sound of an "overloaded" steel PU favors certain types of music and playing styles. (Not all el-guitar players like it though, as my steel enters "their" sound-range.)
Have no idea how your steel will behave/sound, but it's easy to test by soldering a resistor between signal and earth in the first cable from the steel's output - before matching-amps, VP and all. No risks of damage, and you only switch cable for A/B testing until you're satisfied. Once there you can put a switch with suitable load-resistors in a box like the ones shown here |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 8:24 pm
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| For tone, I just use my TrueTone single coil pup with typical modern psg impedance (18.5 K). I use a grooved Dobro bar (Shubb Pearse #2) for a thinner tone and more maneuverability. A tube amp helps, or a tube distortion box such as the Seymour Duncan Twin Tube. |
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John Gould
From:
Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 8:51 pm Rock on
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I tend to stick with strings 1 through 6 and think about pentatonic patterns that I can play without pedals. So treating it like a lap steel in a way. To effect the sound, running it through a Blues Driver or a Fulltone OCD you can dial in a bluesy or rock tone.
You've got all the notes for the A minor/C major pentatonic with open strings. A C D E G so finding all your over lapping patterns by moving where you have the root you can make it sound like playing slide on a 6 string. Of course moving those patterns for different keys once you have them down.
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A couple of guitars
Fender GTX 100 Fender Mustang III Fender Blues Jr. Boss Katana MKII 50
Justice Pro Lite and Sho Bud Pro II |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 12:17 am
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in the 0 fret position (open) :
if you have a the A to Bb change on strings 4 & 8, you've got a C7
if you have the C to C# change on strings 3 & 7, along w: P8, you've got a nice full A7 rock & blues chord
here's a lick using the top end of it in C at fret 3:
1
2---3-------5----5(6)
3---3(#)---5----5(7)
w: P6, you get a good solid F7
if you lower string 5 : G to F, you get a root in the middle of the chord & can play some full boogie chords on the lower end
w: P5, you get a nice funky D9
you can also lower string 3 a half step on it too
Last edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 22 Sep 2009 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 12:22 am
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Thanks for all the ideas.
That's really nice playing, Mike. You're just using the E9th side of the U-12? It fits in really nicely with the band...sounds almost like blues harp at times, and slide guitar at others...
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www.pedalsteel.ca |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 7:42 am
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Yep, Crowbear's got it:
Boogie root:
| Quote: |
| if you have a the A to Bb change on strings 4 & 8, you've got a C7 (12th fret) |
4th chord, same fret:
| Quote: |
w: P6, you get a good solid F7
if you lower string 5 : G to F, you get a root in the middle of the chord & can play some full boogie chords on the lower end. |
There's others:
Raise C's (1/2 step) 10th fret G7
P5+P6+ lower A's + G->F = 11th fret G6/Ab minor
P5+lower A's + G->F + raise C's = 11th fret C9th (depending, this might be a bit contortionist, but the way it transits to the above chord is a thing of beauty) 
P8 + ...well, lots: 15th fret C-Something
The first two chords are the heart of it, though. The first song I learned on PSG was "Stormy Monday Blues", followed by "Whipping Post" and "Statesboro Blues" in short order. Don't worry about tone too much initially (buying more crap isn't gonna save you, Buck-o  ) - just try to get some crank on the bar inflections and some percussive attack - a lighter bar is a big help. You learn to skip strings a lot.
If you have a high G, all the top 6 strings are arranged in pairs of 4ths and P7 inverts them to 5ths (or vice-versa) and there's a 3rd between the pairs.
(The guitar solo from "Hotel California" is just major and minor chords in various inversions - you can play the entire thing with just P7....)
Start HERE
You actually have to kind of... Get STOOPID, to play blues/rock well - fall in love with a mean woman, drink bad whiskey etc. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 8:52 am
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Start by learning something like the lick to One Way Out or Trouble no more in 2 positions.
Then branch out until you get comfortable in the blues positions.
Keep the 3rd flat.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 9:23 am
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Use no audible pedal movement. That's what makes people think "Country".
The slurs need to be created by bar movement.
An overdrive or distortion pedal get the point across.
Work on Pentatonic Scales and simple rocks licks that can be found in standard guitar instruction.
Like most, I do the rock and blues on E9 . |
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Byron Walcher
From:
Ketchum, Idaho, USA
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 9:18 pm
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In regard to tone, you need a tube type amp and some kind of lower gain overdrive. I tried all kinds of different bars and finally went back to using my regular BJS bar, I can't really tell much difference and not necessarily better. A good EQ or tone control on the guitar can be helpful to reduce the fizziness a bit.
As far as licks go, I use both necks depending on the more common voicings in the song. The more I play, the less I use the pedals on either neck, after all, rock guitarists and slide players don't have them. For the c6 neck explore all of the options 3 frets up and 2 frets down from the open, no pedals major chord positions. My $.02
Byron
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74 Black Emmmons 8x8 Wood Necks, Georgeboard, '80 OMI Dobro, '64 Fender Pro Amp , "76 Vibrosonic Reverb |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 9:24 pm
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Do you use an overdrive pedal, or just let your tube amp overdrive?
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www.pedalsteel.ca |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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John Steele
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 10:30 pm
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I was gonna say what b0b said. So:
What b0b said...
- John |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 11:07 pm
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Three frets above the tonic fret is the IIIb chord. Two frets below the tonic is the VIIb chord. These are actually just part of what can be considered the harmonized pentatonic blues scale: I IIIb IV V VIIb I. You can play these as chords, or you can move back and forth among them for single note stuff.
These chord frets work on E9 or C6, or any other tuning. |
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Byron Walcher
From:
Ketchum, Idaho, USA
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 11:15 pm
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You need an overdrive pedal and a tube amp. The o/d pedal with a s/s amp just never sounds right to me. You can use a tube amp by itself but it has to be a real small one and then is no good when you go back to clear tone. When you are looking at the 3 above two below pockets don't forget the lever that lowers the 3rd string and if you have it the 1st string D note is part of the major/minor pentatonic notes and gives some really nice rock blues scale pattens that can be played fast and are way easier than they sound.
Byron |
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