String Breakage or the lack of it !

Ray Kedge · From: Middlesex, England

When I started playing around 1970 I had ZB's Sho Bud's and Emmons guitars and they all broke strings on a regular basis 3rd's 4th's 5th's.Now is it the quality of strings that have improved ,the changers on the newer guitars, maybe my technique got better but I haven't broken a string now for well, since I can't remember either in practice or live situations.I used to keep spare 3rd's just because of the breakage ,don't need to do that anymore.
I have always changed strings regularly,but back then even new strings broke,so what has improved.I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

Ray

Dennis Wallis · From: Arkansas

I would say that it is a combination of all the things you mentioned. I know SIT strings rarely break. They are reinforced at the ball end to help prevent it. I hardly ever break a string anymore no matter how old they are . There are a lot of other good brands out there also . If I find something that works and I like it I usually stay with it .

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Perhaps I've been fortunate but I've experienced very little string breakage on any of my guitars, dating back to my Fender Triple-8, Bigsby and/or Emmons.

I always carry extra 3rd strings for E9th but this has been less a problem in these later years.

Rick Ulrich · From: Gilbert, Arizona

I used to break a lot of strings until I learned to put them on correctly. Now I rarely ever break a string. I did recently find a dead string in a set of SIT strings. I guess a person has to expect that every now and then

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Breaking strings and trying to change them preemptivly before they broke and keep track of how many gigs I'd played since they'd been on and all that - for decades it used to be the bane of my existance. Sho-Buds,Emmons,my old ZB and a couple MSAs all broke the 3rd string after about 3 gigs and the 4th,5th and 10th could go at any time kinda randomly. Even my 1994 Keyless Sierra broke the 3rd - it just lasted 6 or 7 gigs instead of 2 or 3. Nowadays I break zero strings. I guess it's a combination of better strings(I like Jagwires)and the sideways pulling action on my keyless Excel changer.

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Yeah, I used to break the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 10th strings. Nowadays any breakage is really rare. Better strings, mostly, I think.

I started playing with the Open Hearts band in 2001. Sometime around 2005 or so I broke a string on stage, and the band was totally surprised. I was the only steel player they knew, and they didn't know that a pedal steel could break strings. Of course, the guitar players broke strings all the time. Laughing

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Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

I haven't actually broke a 10th string, but I have had them unravel at the ball end. I use Frenchy's Silent Series strings. Have never had one break on a job. I do change my strings out fairly regular because of my playing schedule.Jody.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I actually had the 10th string on my C6th neck unravel at the ball end (on a ZB Custom). Gotta believe it was a bad string.

I almost never break a string anymore. I've learned to tell when they are about to go. No sustain, weird tonal quality, won't stay in tune (this usually happens to me more than the first 2 reasons.

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

Ray - the quality of strings for pedal steel has improved. I have put 3rd strings on my guitars in the 'old days' and sometimes they would break within an hour. It used to be a lottery if you could get through a gig with all strings intact. Its no longer the case. Cobra Coils in particular seem to last forever.
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Ray Kedge · From: Middlesex, England

Ken,
I agree with the string quality,and the changers these days have improved a great deal, the Williams for instance, the angle of the string is now around 45 degrees maybe even less on the 400 and 600 series as opposed to almost 90 dergees on the older guitars.

Tony Smart · From: Harlow. Essex. England

I've always found that newly bought strings last longer, as older ones tend to lose their annealed properties and age harden in time.

Also that cold weather increases string breakage - makes them more brittle.

Just my opinion.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

That's a good point, Tony. The Jagwires that I use (from the Forum catalog) are always very fresh because of the quick turnover of our stock. Strings might be more brittle if they've been sitting on a store shelf for a couple of years.
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Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I agree with the string quality,and the changers these days have improved a great deal, the Williams for instance, the angle of the string is now around 45 degrees maybe even less on the 400 and 600 series as opposed to almost 90 dergees on the older guitars.<<

Hey Ray, I agree with your above statement, I've had my Williams 600 Series for almost 2 years and have never broken any strings...90% of strings breakage occurs because of changer design IMHO. The Williams changer bends the string less at the changer end and hence less string breakage occurs. Bill Rudolph hit the ball out of the park when he designed and patented this changer...I understand that Anapeg has the same or near the same angle of string attachment as the Williams because both men thought of the same idea at about the same time even though they were 1000's of miles apart...what a bizarre occurrence. I would not go back to any other changer design.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Williams has less of a cam angle but it's still a cam rotating on a cross shaft. Anapeg and Lamar actually pull 100% horizontally in line with the string. Excel has a round cross shaft but the holes in the changer fingers are egg shaped giving an eliptical motion to the raise and lower stroke which is a sort of hybrid of the Willy and Anapeg/Lamar systems. They all fix the string breakage problem though. What's amazing to me is that a lot of very popular and otherwise world class pedal steel designs have not really addressed this issue when it's been demonstrated that it can be dealt with in a variety of ways.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Williams has less of a cam angle but it's still a cam rotating on a cross shaft. Anapeg and Lamar actually pull 100% horizontally in line with the string. Excel has a round cross shaft but the holes in the changer fingers are egg shaped giving an eliptical motion to the raise and lower stroke which is a sort of hybrid of the Willy and Anapeg/Lamar systems. They all fix the string breakage problem though. What's amazing to me is that a lot of very popular and otherwise world class pedal steel designs have not really addressed this issue when it's been demonstrated that it can be dealt with in a variety of ways.<<

Hey Michael, I agree with your above statement but what amazes me is that people do not avail themselves to the brands you mentioned because IMHO each one of those brands have solved the string breakage problem.

Brandon Ordoyne · From: Needville,Texas USA

I use Jagwire strings on my Rittenberry and Emmons... Smile

Brandon
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John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Remember, a lot of us are playing instruments that don't break strings even though they are 25+ years old and have a 90 degree bend at the changer. I think the difference must be mainly in the strings, not the changers.

John

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Ray, I think it's a combination of all you mentioned, but probably more on the modern mechanics of modern guitars. I too like you used to snap 3rds and 5ths. Was bad enough to snap a 3rd during a song but snap a 5th and we were in S**T street. That don't happen anymore on my "newer" changer on the Carter Smile

Hope to see you in September for a cuppa tea on my 6th monthly check/up. 10.6 years now LOL Laughing

Micky Byrne United Kingdom

Sho-Bud and Carter Universals, Peavey Nasville 400, and Evans fet 500lv

www.micky-byrne.co.uk

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

It can't be changer design. I rarely break a string, and I have a '77 MSA Classic. They, (the strings), go dead after a month or so, but they don't break.
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Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

the Williams for instance, the angle of the string is now around 45 degrees maybe even less on the 400 and 600 series as opposed to almost 90 dergees on the older guitars.<<

Ray K. On my Williams 600 series I would say the angle is about 23 degrees...less bending at the changer=less string breakage

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Strings have definitely become better and can withstand repeated bending-action over the conventional changer-rollers for longer.

The initial bend of the string over/around the changer-roller doesn't matter, as that bend is permanent. All bending-action and resulting metal-fatigue and breaking, take place in a short zone where the string leaves the bridge, on top of the changer-roller.

Some strings may be better conditioned to tolerate repeated bending near the end, so in that respect the distance between the hook-up point and the bridge-top may play a role. Too long a distance and a particular string may be past its conditioned length at the bridge-point, and therefore break easier.

For conventional non-linear changer-rollers: the bigger the radius of the roller, the closer to a linear movement of the string - less bending up and down with changes - they get. So, really big-radius changer-rollers don't break strings that quickly.

The problem with big-radius changer-rollers is that as the string vibrates, it doesn't have a somewhat sharp and well-defined bridge-point to vibrate against - the bridge has a shallow curve. The vibrating part of the string becomes slightly longer when the top of the wave hits the bridge and slightly shorter when the wave-bottom hits the bridge. However small this lengthening/shortening is, it works against the clear tone and sustained vibration.

From this, one can calculate and observe that; big-radius changer-rollers wins in life-length of string but loses in tone, while small-radius changer-rollers wins in tone but loses in life-length of string.

The ideal is to have a narrow bridge-point and a linear or close-to-linear changer movement.

- All-linear mechanisms have it by separating actual changer from the bridge.

- More conventional roller mechanisms can be constructed to work that way too, by placing a narrow bridge close to a big-radius roller-changer and get a near-linear motion.

- Hybrid solutions, like the one found on the best Jackson steels, reduce bending over a shaped, narrow, bridge on the roller-changer by only doing rises at that end and do lowering at the key-end.

- The best solution would be to have linear changers (only) at the key-end, and optimize the bridge for the tone. A key-less construction with built-in changer of sort, would be perfect. Don't know if any steel is constructed this way.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

I try to change strings after 3 gigs, the 3rd every 2 gigs. String breakage is not a problem on my Carter. I use George L's, I prefer them over the Jagswires. Jagwires seem a little bright to my ears, but many others swear by them. JP
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Stuart Legg · Posted 14 Jun 2009 8:18 am

I think the reason there is less string breakage now days is that you old guys can't stomp that A and B like you used to. Laughing

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

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