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Topic: In defense of expensive finger picks |
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 7:12 am |
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A bit of editorializing...
In another thread concerning Andy Hinton's coated finger picks, a forumite commented (paraphrasing him here) that $2.50 or more for a pick is outrageous when considering that picks can be found for less than a buck.
I disagree. Development of new mods to existing products... whether guitar picks or amplifiers... shouldn't be gratuitous, but should solve a problem. Problem solvers get rewarded by the marketplace.
The pick is our point of access to the steel guitar for the fingers of the right hand. The correct fit and feel on our fingertips is necessary for comfort and accuracy while picking, so any development that improves playing skills is worth an insignificant increase in price to me.
National and Jim Dunlop picks are adequate for the task of exciting the strings; I used Dunlops and Nationals for decades. And in 1995 Jeff Newman gave me a set of his JF "diamond" picks, allowing as how their thickness would improve my sound.
I was skeptical about a pick improving sound, but I respected my friend's opinion so I tried them. Jeff was correct. The curve, once I got it set to my preference, was more stable than the .025 Dunlop. The shape of the tip (on the side that strikes the string) lasted longer. The flanges didn't come off my fingers like the Dunlop and didn't bite into my cuticle like the Nationals I had at the time. Like the first time I used a BJS bar, I experienced an immediate improvement in feel and performance. I DID sound better. WOW. I can't even come near a set of Dunlops now.
I buy JF picks from Fran, 5 bucks a pair, 4 sets at a time. And no argument about the cost. They're worth it to me, because I make my living doing this silly stuff.
I have no doubt that Andy's picks are worth what he's asking for them, if by using the picks a player gets added comfort, enjoyment, and resultant playing improvement. I would imagine that his picks would also solve the problem of picks coming off the fingertip due to the flange sliding on the skin.
Likewise, I saw and tried on a set of National picks that Bill Stroud (BJS bars) chrome plates. Excellent feel, fit and finish. A nice, solid stroke on the the string and the chrome finish made the pick come off the string noticeably smoother. And if Bill Stroud makes them, you know the finish is of the highest quality.
Players consistently keeping a product in circulation for years means the product is offering something the steel community feels is desireable and is willing to pay for.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Cal Sharp
From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
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Mike Ester
From:
New Braunfels, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 7:49 am
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I have to agree with you, Herb. In the grand scheme of things, $2.50 is not a lot of money. For Pete's sake! You can't buy a mixed drink in a bar for that amount.
Also have to agree about the BJS bars. I used a Marlen stainless bar for many years. I bought one of Bill's bars, and never looked back.
I don't gig full-time, but I appreciate the concept of spending just a little more to upgrade a tool of the trade that makes money. Those tools will pay for themselves in the long run. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 7:54 am
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Thanks, Cal. I guess you can take the boy out of the newspaper, but you can't... well, you know. 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 8:21 am
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Count me in, Herb. I understand wanting to save money, but the assumption that a higher-priced accessory is a rip-off is not always well-founded. I suppose, like steel builders, some of these are small operations.
I used JF picks for years, but have trouble with them digging into the sides of the cuticle. I've been using Ron Perry fingerpicks I get from Elderly at $15 a pair and couldn't be happier. Definitely worth the investment for comfort and solidity.
I don't believe in buying strings by the pack, though. I just snatch a couple out of Grandma's piano every time I visit. There's enough for 2 more string changes...  |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Stephen Silver
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 10:18 am
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Whoa is me! Last night as I was tearing down, one of my fingerpicks fell out of it's pouch and was immediately stepped on by the drummer!
JF picks I've had for like 20 years. They are (were) just an extention of my fingers.
I agree with Herb. Why would anyone complain about paying $2.50 per pick or $10 per pick for that matter. The picks you use and how they fit are one of the most important items for a steel guitarist for those of us that use them. We pay $5K for an instrument and one quibbles about a few bucks for their picks. go figure.
Well it's time to call Fran...damn, those picks were so comfortable. I felt like I had lost an old friend.
SS
Life is mostly Attitude and Timing |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 10:34 am
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Mike
The Bill Stroud picks I tried belong to John McClung and while I did dig them, I didn't have the opportunity to A/B them with my JFs.
I did polish the tips of my JFs and that definitely improves the feel. Polishing only needs to be on the upper tip of the pick.
SteveS
One set for 20 years?! I wear out the tips of my picks within two years. And I alternate numerous sets. The side of the tip wears away and I miss notes by a micro-second. When new picks appear, the feel comes back.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 11:13 am pick slippage
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If you have a problem with picks slipping, I have quick fix. Go to Wal-Mart and get a small bottle of gun blue. Pour a small portion in a lid, just enough to cover the strap that cover's the fingers. Set the pick in it for a few minutes, take it out and let it dry. It will turn dark and will not slip.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 1:07 pm
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The VERY best thing I have ever used to keep picks from slipping is GORRILA SNOT,Can get it at most music stores.A tube of it will last a LONG time,takes VERY,VERY,little,DON'T OVER DO IT.just use caution not to get it on your strings,IT WORKS,with it you don't have to wear your picks so tight they hurt,works great on thumb picks and your finger picks,DYKBC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 1:16 pm
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| Charles Davidson wrote: |
| The VERY best thing I have ever used to keep picks from slipping is GORRILA SNOT, |
It works well, but I can't get past the way it smells.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Whip Lashaway
From:
Monterey, Tenn, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 1:36 pm
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Herb, I agree with everything you said. I've gone through the same experiences. I to use the BJS bar. I bought a Dunlop (because it was less expensive) just to have at the house for rehearsal and just couldn't tolerate it. Now I ONLY use it to prove to nay sayers by giving them a side by side. I to use the JF picks. I also use Jeff's thumbpicks. I would only add to your comments that if you have opportunity to get a Zirconia bar DO IT. You won't want to use it for everything but it is tremedously smooth and adds speed to my playing. It is a slighly more mellow tone than the BJS but still an awesome bar.
_________________
Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string
Excel S12 8x9 blue
Excel S12 8x9 black |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 2:01 pm
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Picks can be expensive compared to candybars, but they'll last a lot longer! I've paid $14 for Showcase '41's. Didn't care for them, but since I get about 10 years out of a set, I sure wouldn't lose any sleep.
People who spend thousands on a guitar certainly shouldn't gripe about $20 worth of picks!
Personally, I'd also skip all the "home remedies" for fixing loose picks, too. Shape them properly, wear them properly, and pick properly, and you shouldn't have any problems. |
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Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 2:07 pm
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Could anyone post any links to the JF picks? ... and other brands as well.
Changing picks has always been a very difficult thing for me. Actually, I've never done it. I've used the Dunlop for decades... and back when playing full time a set only wore out once. My only dilemma was the gauge to try. I think I'll try some other brands out and see.
Zirconia bar: I've never used anything else since I got one years ago. I also have a BJS which is a great product from a great guy. I keep it as a spare on live gigs, and have a 2nd for my practice rig. The primary reason why I like the Zirconia is it doesn't slip on outdoor humid gigs. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 2:15 pm
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| There was an article in GP magazine many years ago. The article was on picks and commented "the 25 cent EQ" I continue to experiment with all types of thumb and finger picks even though I have used the same type for a long time. Oh what fun! |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 5:02 pm
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Jeff,
Click on the links button at the top of this page and look under vendors. You will find Jeffran Music listed and that's where you get the Jeff Newman picks.
I don't know why people bother using sticky stuff to keep their picks on. If you get them bent right, just lick your fingers and they will stay on and you don't risk getting the sticky stuff on your guitar, bar etc..
Stephen Silver,
Shame on you for not having a spare..  |
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Paul Norman
From:
Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 5:48 pm
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I dont want any gorilla snot on my fingers.
I dont like the sound of it. It feels nasty. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 7:17 pm
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I know it's not a pretty name,but Gorilla snot DOES work,if you use it right,the secret is DON'T try to use too much,Just like the old Bryll Cream,a little dab will do you.Those picks WILL stay on,DYKBC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Andy Hinton
From:
Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 8:03 pm in defense of expensive picks
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| Herb; Thank you for mentioning & defending my pick coating process & pricing. I've had lots of response & have delivered over 100 sets. So far, no negative feed back. I've just simplified the priceing to $8.00 per set, shipped anywhere in the world that gets mail. My process is small & tedious. First cleaned with naptha, dryed,dipped, dryed 4hrs. then dipped again & dried 24 hrs. All this, one pick at a time. Sure ain't doing it for the money I get. I do it 'cause it might help other steel guitarist that have had problems either keeping picks on or hurting fingers because they have to keep picks too tight. I thank you again for the opportunity to explain my process & motivation. Andy Hinton |
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Larry Hamilton
From:
Amarillo,Tx
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 9:45 pm
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Andy, I love my picks!!!! I'll be getting some more I promise. I don't need Grorilla Snot with your picks but I use it with a pair. Just experimenting. I recommend Andy's pick for everyone. For $8.00, one can't go wrong. Keep up the slow tedious, excellent work.
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Keep pickin', Larry |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 9:59 pm
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BJS bars and JF picks all the way for me as well.
While we're on the subject, Bill Stroud gave me a really cool thumb pick in Dallas last March, with an angle on the pick edge that sits parallel to the string. It's called a "Zookie L10". It really improves the thumb attack. I'm sure many of you are aware of this thumb pick, but I didn't know about it until I was given one by Bill.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Darrell Hodges
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 10:13 pm
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The coating sounds more comfortable but if you get in a bind I have used hairspray and it works great. Just dip your fingers in it an slip them on a few minutes before playing. Happy twanging psg'rs.
Darrell Hodges |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 10:14 pm
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People have mentioned Zookie thumb picks on the Forum before, but without mentioning who made them or how to get them. Are they one of Bill Stroud's own products? It sounds like something I'd be interested in, because my thumb attack, try as I might to adjust it to hit the strings with a parallel surface, always wears down my thumb picks on the edge.
I like the JF finger picks, too, but I also like the Kyser Old Style with knurling on the inside surface of the pick. Both stay on much better than my loved/hated old Nationals. |
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Chris Schlotzhauer
From:
Colleyville, Tx. USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2008 11:48 pm
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Herb I was at the Dallas convention and Danny Crelin told me he was going over to Fran's booth to buy some picks. Somehow all these years, I had never heard about the diamonds. Danny bought a couple pair, so I did too. I love these picks. Actually they are pre-bent, I don't change them at all. My right hand has a tendency to wonder of good position. These picks tend to keep me at the right angle of attack.
I would pay $100 for picks that made me play better. My right hand sucks. |
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Bryan Daste
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2008 12:16 am
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There was a thread a while back about how to keep picks from sliding off, and someone suggested getting a short piece of heat-shrink tubing (used to insulate electrical wires) and putting it over the part of the pick that clamps it to your finger.
This has made the picks much more comfortable, and I was able to bend them out a little bit so they weren't putting excess pressure on the finger and cutting off blood flow. They stay on great too!
I am going to order some of the JF picks and try the heat-shrink trick with them. |
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