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Topic: New Amps |
James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 5:08 am |
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| I've been reading thru the Electronics section of the forum quite a bit, and it seems to me that so many "Reissues" or new amps that are being built , are just thrown together very cheaply to turn a buck .... It also seems to me that unless you buy a point to point wired amp from a reputable builder that there just isn't any good amps or any really good devices out there ....Sure there are a few good builds like our Brad Sarno's , but for the most part , the gear out there today is just plain crap ..... I guess the same thing goes for just about any products that are on the market today , not just amps ..... I can't help but think back to when everybody was working, and if you worked hard, you could afford to buy a home for your family, and mom could stay home with the kids, and everybody was working !!!.....You got paid a fair days pay for a fair days work , and products that were made in the USA were looked at as quality, not junk ..... So this is what they call "Progress" ??... I feel like there is no better time to take back our country than now....I just wish I knew how ... and I don't have a problem paying a guy to build me a pedal steel that costs a few thousand dollars ....It's a custom hand built instrument that takes the builder plenty of time to build ....That's what it's all about !!..... What are your thoughts ? .....Jim |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 6:18 am
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I agree! I refuse to work on most newer amps. Exception being the Hot Rod series from Fender. A nice PC layout and not to difficult to get apart. Small traces and easy to burn, even with a temperature controlled soldering station! Same small, cheap pots with pot metal shafts that break easily. Other major tube amp brands I have worked on, Marshall and Mesa Boogie. Marshalls look like something on life support, with jumpers running from PC board to PC board. A true nightmare to work on. Mesa Boogie, about the same.
Peavey, just as bad for the newer stuff. Its all new fast assembly processes to make the amps as cheap as possible. Competition has forced a lot of changes on the industry. There is no turning back the clock, I am afraid!!
The older style hand-wired amps are expensive to build these days. I have done three so far, a 1955 Deluxe, 1955 Pro and a 1965 Vibrolux. Each cost close to or more than $900.00 in parts alone! Typically a day to build and test each amp.
Typically these type of hand-wired amps go on the market from $2000.00 upward to $3,000.00. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 6:31 am
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Ken,
I should have included you in the " Good Guy " column, but I consider you more a repair / mod guy more than a builder ...I will now include you as a builder !!. 
How does the 55 Pro sound ? ....I'm thinking along the lines of a Tweed Pro for a lower volume recording amp for pedal steel .....Thanks, Jim |
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Craig Stenseth
From:
Naperville, Illinois, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 6:55 am
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| Wouldn't the old amps have taken just as many man-hours to assemble, as the "point-to-point" boutique amps take today? I'd be curious to see how the prices compare in inflation-adjusted dollars. (I'm not disagreeing with the PCB board amps being hard or impossible to repair). |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 7:17 am
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Craig,
I think that when you look at what the dollar could do years ago, you would find that the point to point amps of yesterday actually cost more then the point to point amps of today given the value of the dollar .... I would guess that a $500 Fender amp then is probably at least a $2,000 Fender amp today, and the parts used years ago were probably better !!....Jim
Funny when you look at the value of things today ....More is less ......Kinda goes against the Less is more philosophy .... |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 8:16 am
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| I think that when you look at what the dollar could do years ago, you would find that the point to point amps of yesterday actually cost more then the point to point amps of today given the value of the dollar |
I agree. A $500 silverface Twin Reverb in 1972 would be equivalent to about $2500 today - 35 years and about a 5-times inflation. It's about 6-times if you go 4-5 years earlier than that to 1967-8. Geez, I recently bought an ultralinear silverface Twin Reverb that probably cost $600-700 in 1978 for $400. I see earlier silverface Twins for the $600-800 range all the time. They're a huge bargain.
I think it's reasonable to have PC-board amps, but my gripe is with flimsy, very complex, and small-trace boards, the difficulty removing them, the tendency to directly connect external things like jacks and pots directly to the board so that if, for example, a pot takes a hit, the board can easily crack. Ultimately, this is about moving to a business model of throwaway electronic stuff. An awful lot of manufacturers - I won't mention any names - have moved to a "replace it if it's under warranty - and after warranty, it's a paperweight" service policy.
| Quote: |
| Funny when you look at the value of things today ....More is less ......Kinda goes against the Less is more philosophy .... |
As a society, we only pay lip service to "Less is More". If you really examine behavior, the prevailing mode of thought is "More is More", but I agree that it has regressed to "More is Less". |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 9:02 am tone
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The Pro amp is tone to the bone! This was was built the same cab size but it has a 12" baffle! Hard to believe the bottom a 12" speaker can have.
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 11:15 am
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Ken,
Your Pro looks SMOKIN !!!..... VERY nice indeed ...You got me thinking !!.....Thanks for the pics ....In the words of Tony the Tiger ...They're GGRRRRRRRRREEEEAT !!!.....Jim |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 24 Oct 2008 2:42 pm Re: New Amps
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| James Quackenbush wrote: |
| You got paid a fair days pay for a fair days work , and products that were made in the USA were looked at as quality, not junk ..... So this is what they call "Progress" ?? |
No, it's not progress... it's greed, pure and simple. If companies were not oriented toward short-term gain workers would be better paid and the quality of products would remain high.
I suspect that boutique amp builders don't make bags and bags of money and it takes them a fair amount of time and effort to crank out decent sounding amps that are going to last a lifetime.
_________________
Sho-Bud Pro III + Marshall JMP 2204 half stack = good grind! |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2008 12:15 pm
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I'm very happy with my Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue. It is a quality amp.
_________________
Everyone in the world has two jobs: 1) whatever they do for a living; and 2) music critic. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2008 1:11 pm
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I have a '56 Pro that I built a sub-baffle board for. It now has a 12" Peavey Scorpion + in it, and the original speaker is boxed safely away.
Everytime I see Mike Zaite (Dr Z), I try to convince him to build a steel amp. So far, he's resisting! |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 25 Oct 2008 10:36 pm
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I don't know what's happening with Fender. My Deluxe Reissue had a bad pilot light socket that the store tech couldn't fix after two trips, so I gave up on it. My reverb was also bad out of the gate, so I had to exchange amps early in the game. My Reissue Twin Custom 15" gave me so many problems in the first month of owning it that I had to return it. It's a shame that Fender, of all the amp companies, has let their product slide so badly. I've seen at least 2-3 other Fender tube amps in for repair in my local dealer's store in the past month. It's not right to have the Fender name deteriorate in the name of monetary greed, but I guess that's the way it is these days.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 26 Oct 2008 12:37 am
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There are plenty of new mom and pop amp builders out there now building good stuff. I have been impressed with recently with
http://www.headstrongamps.com/.
There are some real nice amps out there. Look around where ever you live and you just may find a local guy doing good work.
_________________
Bob |
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Lefty
From:
Grayson, Ga.
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Posted 26 Oct 2008 3:38 am
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I agree that it is all about money and greed. I have seen it with the company where I work. "World Economy", we welcome Chinese and Mexican products but don't do much to help USA manufacturing. Don't tell me it is about how US workers are over-paid. Maybe some automotive unions, but for the most part that is not it. The problem is we critize the Chinese and Mexicans, when it is our own US companies that are greedy. I have worked in both countries and their workers are just ordinary people trying to live a little better. Down from soapbox.
About 4 years ago I started to try and replace some of the old hand wired Fenders that I had sold or traded in the past. No comparison with the new Fenders. Original black face and tweed are out of my budget, but late 60's silverface is still fairly priced, although going up fast.
I did use a Fender Hot rod deluxe in the last band where I was playing six string, and it is a great sounding amp. I am sure when you take it apart though the difference is obvious.
Lefty |
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Phill Martin
From:
Whitewater Kansas, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2008 11:06 pm
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I was lucky to find a guy who has been working on amps since the 60's who built me a sweet 1/2 watt amp with a master gain and a fx loop for less than $250. It is my main home amp to keep piece in the family if you know what I mean.
_________________
YOU CAN TUNE A GUITAR BUT YOUR CAN'T TUNA FISH!
Bronson Melody King 6 string
National New Yorker 6
National D-8 Totem Pole
Rickenbacker D-6
Rickenbacker D-8
Frankensteinslide (OAHU/body) (SUPRO /string through pickup) (LESTREM/vibrato bridge)M88
Rickenbacker Amp M88 1953
1/2 watt sweet custom tube amp
Valco Supro Brown and White
Danelectro Twin 12
Crate all tube 12 watt with reverb sweeeet.... |
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