| Author |
Topic: Something other than Vista Please. |
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 31 Aug 2008 11:51 am |
|
| I'd like to investigate something other than Vista as a new operating system. |
|
|
 |
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 31 Aug 2008 12:50 pm
|
|
| About the only thing I can suggest is Linux if you don't want a Microsoft OS. (All three of my PC's - two desktops and a laptop - all have Vista and all work well, although I've been playing around with Ubuntu 64 bit). |
|
|
|
Wiz Feinberg
From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
|
Posted 31 Aug 2008 8:55 pm
|
|
Stuart;
Check out Ubuntu Hardy Heron (8.04). You can order a CD, or download an ISO image and burn it to a CD made bootable using Nero, or another boot image program. I recommend ordering the bootable CD. You can boot from it into the Linux desktop and see all it has to offer.
What you can't do is run any Windows applications directly on the Linux operating system. To do that you will have to download and install WINE, or another Windows translator interface. Not all programs are able to run under WINE, so it may be a crap shoot. Also, not all wireless adapters are recognized by Linux, as I found out recently. I had to use Ethernet instead of my wireless adapter, because there is no Linux driver for it yet. Some audio devices are not compatible with Linux and may never be. It's up to the manufacturers, or the Linux community to write drivers for these devices.
_________________
"Wiz" Feinberg, Moderator SGF Computers Forum
Security Consultant
Twitter: @Wizcrafts
Main web pages: Wiztunes Steel Guitar website | Wiz's Security Blog | My Webmaster Services | Wiz's Security Blog |
|
|
|
Wiz Feinberg
From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
|
Posted 1 Sep 2008 8:39 am
|
|
Stuart;
Have you ever had a chance to check out a Mac computer? Kinkos stores usually have a Mac or two on hand. You can rent time by the 1/2 hour and get to know the system. It's a cheap way to find out if you want a Mac.
_________________
"Wiz" Feinberg, Moderator SGF Computers Forum
Security Consultant
Twitter: @Wizcrafts
Main web pages: Wiztunes Steel Guitar website | Wiz's Security Blog | My Webmaster Services | Wiz's Security Blog |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 2 Sep 2008 9:38 pm
|
|
Jack, I'm looking at Ubuntu as you suggested and Ubuntu Hardy Heron (8.04)that Wiz submitted. I'm afraid that I won't be able to run all my music programs with Linux even with "Wine". Hey Wiz I'd love to have a Mac but I've got too much IBM hardware laying around and I need to use it up first. Maybe I should just except that Microsoft is the Antichrist and learn to live with it.
This is just my opinion and not a proven fact, so I think I'll clean the Break table and eat a donut with Bo and forget about it.
 |
|
|
|
Papa Joe Pollick
From:
Swanton, Ohio
|
Posted 2 Sep 2008 10:32 pm
|
|
| Hey Bo,Whatz wrong with XP Pro? Works fine for me..Just a thought..PJ... |
|
|
|
Wiz Feinberg
From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
|
Posted 3 Sep 2008 5:14 am
|
|
| Papa Joe Pollick wrote: |
| Hey Bo,Whatz wrong with XP Pro? Works fine for me..Just a thought..PJ... |
XP anything is getting very hard to find anymore, since Microsoft halted production and sales of new CDs.
I did a quick search and found that Tiger Direct and Newegg both have OEM versions of XP Pro for sale, for about $139.00.
_________________
"Wiz" Feinberg, Moderator SGF Computers Forum
Security Consultant
Twitter: @Wizcrafts
Main web pages: Wiztunes Steel Guitar website | Wiz's Security Blog | My Webmaster Services | Wiz's Security Blog |
|
|
|
bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
|
Posted 4 Sep 2008 8:12 am
|
|
Once you go MAC you want go back.  |
|
|
|
Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 8 Sep 2008 4:59 pm
|
|
But MACs are about 4Xs as expensive as a comparable Microsoft/Windows PC. Right?
I've sat at one or two over the years, briefly. They are different, and very nice. Hard to explain here about how
different they are.
But, why are they SO much more expensive than a PC?
You would think MAC would want to sell more computers; therefore being more in-line with the going rates for computers?
Both Bill Gates and whoever it was that created the MACs probably put in the same amount of money and research etc.
Why such a very big discrepancy in price?
I jess don't git it!  |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 9 Sep 2008 2:32 am
|
|
Apple seems to be in their own world. At one time you couldn't buy anything for an Apple unless you bought it from Apple (even a printer). Now they have opened the line a lot more.
But, when you control the hardware and the operating system you are in a better position to have less problems (not completly trouble free as some would have you believe). When a company designs the hardware and then designs the Operating System to ONLY work with their hardware design their "monopoly" is the MAC.
Microsoft has to design it's Operating Systems to work with thousands of potentially different hardware configurations and thus "complicates the ham sandwich". Hardware vendors that make "Microsoft compatible" hardware do not always have 100% compatibility, thus the very complex Operating System that is trying to accomodate various hardware that is supposed to be compatible and the hardware vendors that are supposed to be compatible can create either a smooth operating PC or a nightmare.
But who gets the blame when a PC does not work correctly - Microsoft, not the PC vendor who is supposed to have hardware that is in compliance and compatible with the Operating System. The same way with applications software - "you pay your money and take your chances" that the software will work "as advertised" and is 100% compatible with the Operating System. And when the Applications Software does not work right who gets the blame? Microsoft (wrongly) again. The original subject of this thread "Something other than Vista" falls into this category. We heard the same cries from the DOS people when Windows 95 came out, the same cries when Windows XP came out.
Before I retired I worked for the Social Security Admin. We had the almost identical scenario between IBM mainframe computers and another vendor's mainframe computers that were marketed as being 100% IBM compatible. As the Federal Goverment, in procurement, by law must open bids for anyone to bid on a procurement (it can't only have it for one vendor) SSA was forced to buy another vendor's mainframes on one of their procurements. As it turned out it was not 100% compatible as advertised and it took a long time for the vendor to get their mainframes where it would run the IBM "supervisor" (OS), VTAM, CICS, etc correctly. |
|
|
|
Dave Potter
From:
Texas
|
Posted 9 Sep 2008 6:56 am
|
|
| CHIP FOSSA wrote: |
| why are they SO much more xpensive than a PC? ... Why such a very big discrepancy in price? I jess don't git it! |
1) cult following
2) niche market
3) boutique hardware
... all of which go to "overpriced". |
|
|
|
Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
|
Posted 10 Sep 2008 6:49 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| When a company designs the hardware and then designs the Operating System to ONLY work with their hardware design their "monopoly" is the MAC. |
Jack, I'll only agree with this statement if you define "hardware" as the motherboard. Everything else is generic and can be swapped out with non-Apple products. SATA/EIDE drives, PCI slots, video and sound cards, memory modules, peripherals, power supplies. Granted, the motherboard is the heart of the machine and one can swap out a PC motherboard (assuming it fits) with a different ASUS, ABIT, etc. Can't do that on a Mac. But that's usually for tweakers to do and the most typical MS compatibility problems arise from interaction with peripherals. So it's a bit of a straw man argument. Certainly MS has more to deal with but it's hardly the huge advantage for Apple you're making it out to be.
As for expensive hardware, it's absolutely because you can only buy that box from a single source. I actually have one of the Mac clones made for a brief period before Apple changed direction and stomped them out. Too bad, because it definitely reduced prices for a while. I'd love to see clones come back. And what Apple has never realized is that it's their software that makes the Mac a valuable product. Unfortunately, the company makes too much money on hardware to give up control.
Chip, Mac prices certainly seem 4X higher than some of the generic PCs available. But if you look closely at specs and features and then compare them to major PC brand equivalents, you'll find they're closer to 2X more expensive. Still a huge premium to pay but at least a better cost/benefit ratio. One other thing to consider is that you end up with two computers for the price of that new Mac -- a PC and a Mac. The Intel-based Macs run XP or Vista, which is handy for those programs or times when you need to work in Windows only. |
|
|
|
Wiz Feinberg
From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
|
Posted 10 Sep 2008 10:04 am
|
|
| Jeff Agnew wrote: |
| One other thing to consider is that you end up with two computers for the price of that new Mac -- a PC and a Mac. The Intel-based Macs run XP or Vista, which is handy for those programs or times when you need to work in Windows only. |
True, but one has to purchase a licensed copy of Vista or XP to install it on an Intel Mac. The same goes for Parallels. However, if you can afford to buy a Mac, you can probably also afford an extra copy of XP or Vista, to dual boot into.
_________________
"Wiz" Feinberg, Moderator SGF Computers Forum
Security Consultant
Twitter: @Wizcrafts
Main web pages: Wiztunes Steel Guitar website | Wiz's Security Blog | My Webmaster Services | Wiz's Security Blog |
|
|
|
Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
|
Posted 10 Sep 2008 10:11 am
|
|
| Wiz, it's only an issue if one doesn't already have a copy of XP/Vista. Even OEM versions will install via Boot Camp or Parallels Desktop. You'd have to renew the license with MS but it's treated the same as any other hardware change. |
|
|
|
Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 17 Sep 2008 2:29 pm
|
|
I have enough problems getting Vista under my thumb. If I were to get a MAC, I now have another vastly different OS to get under my other thumb.
My point is - why would anyone desire to have two completely (or pretty much completely) different systems.
Why have 2 systems? For the average knucklehead, such as myself?
Not lookin' to start an argument, but just wondering why you would want 2 different systems. I barely have enough time to spend on one.
 |
|
|
|
Alan Miller
From:
, England, UK.
|
Posted 17 Sep 2008 3:20 pm
|
|
Well, Im a computer knucklehead and have over the years spent a lot of money getting my PC sorted, fixed 'cos I am not into learning how to workaround the problems that jack talked about.
So I bought an iMac and so far I have had 18 months of trouble free time ...as they say in the ads "It just works"
If you are clever enough and have the time to spend doing the workarounds with PC hardware / software conflicts then it is simple enough, but i recon my Mac will pay for itself with no bills to pay at the shop.
As for learning a new OS , it wasn't that bad even for a knucklehead and much easier than learning all the "fixes" on a PC.
You dont need two systems, I ditched the PC. |
|
|
|
Dave Potter
From:
Texas
|
Posted 17 Sep 2008 4:53 pm
|
|
| Alan Miller wrote: |
| If you are clever enough and have the time to spend doing the workarounds with PC hardware / software conflicts then it is simple enough, but i recon my Mac will pay for itself with no bills to pay at the shop. |
Interesting take. However, it sounds a lot like something one would observe decades ago, during the DOS days. I've been around since those days, and now, with the current OSes, I simply don't have to deal with all those "PC hardware/software conflicts". The OS just "works".
I'm not all that "clever", but I've never paid anyone to make my PC "work", and it's not a matter of "having the time", it's just not necessary to spend "the time". It just "works". Ain't that peculiar? |
|
|
|
Alan Miller
From:
, England, UK.
|
Posted 18 Sep 2008 5:39 am
|
|
I must be a bigger nucklehead than most or had a puter with gremlins 'cos it was forever refusing to boot up , then it wouldnt shut down ,had to pull the plug on it many times. My photographs would take longer and longer to load from a flashcard, I was getting "programme not responding", but it wouldnt quit the programme it just froze up....had to pull the plug again.
Then there was " windows has encountered a problem and has to close sorry for the inconvienience".
I de fragmented the drive when it needed it ,the disc was only a third full but it would be so slow doing some tasks.
Sometimes on bootup i got a blue screen saying something like windows encountered a problem how would you like to start your computer , safe mode , normally , whatever ......
Im not against windows or PCs some folks dont like Bill Gates so they trash windows , Im not one of those I genuinely just got tired of all these problems and more that I mentioned above.
What would the solution be to some of the problems i came across ?
Could I have been my PCs worst enemy?  |
|
|
|
Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 18 Sep 2008 8:00 am
|
|
Well Alan,
Can't say as I blame you for getting a MAC or even if you got another PC.
By your description of problems with the PC, it sounds like you had some serious malfunctions.
Maybe a clean hard drive wipeout might have corrected everything. But then you would have had to backup all your valued programs.
But I'm just guessing. Believe me, I might sound like I know this and that, but I'm definitely a true blue PC knucklehead.
At least you're finding some satisfaction with the MAC. That's always good.
|
|
|
|
Wiz Feinberg
From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
|
Posted 18 Sep 2008 8:31 am
|
|
I would like to commend all of you "knuckleheads" for taking active roles in the Computers Forum of the SGF. Because of your questions and answers the entire group has benefited. You aren't quite the knuckleheads you were before.
Knowledge is contagious and there is no shot to prevent it from spreading.
_________________
"Wiz" Feinberg, Moderator SGF Computers Forum
Security Consultant
Twitter: @Wizcrafts
Main web pages: Wiztunes Steel Guitar website | Wiz's Security Blog | My Webmaster Services | Wiz's Security Blog |
|
|
|
Alan Miller
From:
, England, UK.
|
Posted 18 Sep 2008 10:15 am
|
|
Wiz, thanks for that encouragement for all the improving knuckleheads like myself.
I often had a look at the computer section searches and to be honest it was very helpful with the PC on occasion.
Like every section of this great forum the wealth of knowledge is astounding and even the most stupid questions get a polite answer or some get politely shot down in flames.
Chip, I did get my hard drive backed up once and wiped but it was difficult getting some of my stuff off to disc, then a year or so later it all started going wrong again . I was told some contaminated sectors could have survived so thats when a friend said get a Mac and no problems so far . 
Maybe Macs are knucklehead proof !!! |
|
|
|
Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 19 Sep 2008 12:09 pm
|
|
Yes, Wiz, thanks for the vote of confidence.
Alan, if you're still thinking about 'backups', try using an external HDD unit, such as MyBook by Western Digital, along with, maybe, Acronis Backup and Restore program.
I've had good luck with these units. Acronis takes a bit getting used to, but if I can do it, then you can do it.
I mention the HDD units as they aren't as susceptile to disk problems, that we've all come to love
and enjoy.
And, you simply turn them off, after backing up or whenever you're through using it. Like having another separate, but disconnected PC. Not affected by what's happening with your PC or MAC.
As Wiz has always said, "sooner or later your hdd WILL bite the dust".
And when that happens, the whole ranch goes, too.
|
|
|
|
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
|
Posted 20 Sep 2008 7:36 am The current issue has a great article on this...............
|
|
PC WORLD, current issue, has a step one can take to change the manner in which VISTA works and looks.
You might wish to acquire a copy of same. |
|
|
|
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
|
Posted 30 Oct 2008 9:39 pm
|
|
| I took Vista off my new machine and loaded Windows XP Pro. Most of my music programs wouldn't work with Vista, but they all work with XP. |
|
|
|
