Permission fees for MP3 instructional posts

David Doggett · Posted 14 Aug 2008 11:18 am

I would like to post a few songs on a file host server. These would be only to demonstrate some things that can be done on my S12 E9/B6 Uni copedent. They would not be for sale, and would not be on a CD. I would only post the links here on the Forum with discussion about the copedent and technique, possibly with tab. Some of the songs would be copyrighted material (My Funny Valentine, Take Five, Last Date, etc.). Do I need to pay electronic permission fees for that? Do I do that through Harry Fox? Would it matter if I didn't record the whole song? What if I wanted to post them on a My Space page, or on YouTube?

If this topic has been covered somewhere else, please point me in the right direction.

Thanks

Carl Vilar · From: New Jersey USA

David I am not an expert on the subject or know the law but I think what you want to do falls under "fair use" and "nonprofit educational purposes" I think something being instructional, educational, and nonprofit is the key to being able to do it but I would look into further to make sure.
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JCH 9/7
1971 Blond Twin Reverb 15" custom
Randall Steel Man 500

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

there is no FAIR USE for copyrighted materials.

Legally, permission is required to make any internet, broadcast, video or mechanical recording. The definition of "permission" is to give away, share , sell, manufacture, download, etc.

If and when you purchase a license, education can be one of the reasons for the production.

We can record any song we want, but once we offer it out to "any" public venue this is where it crosses the line. Are the MP3 police going to come after you for a few clips? I doubt it. They are looking for UPLOADS of hundreds or thousands of the same songs.

Our forum is chock full of TITLED downloads and tabs , I have no clue if these are licensed or not but I suspect at some point someone may ask. We have lots of lookers here and I suspect many are industry connected.

Now, in your scenario, I am not suggesting this is LEGAL, but you may want to post clips and lable the tracks as example 1, example 2 etc..in this manner there is no connection to the song title and it would be easier for you or I to become the next Pope then it would be for the MP3 song title police to find your clip.
Laughing

You should visit the Harry Fox website as it offers a wealth of information on the subject .

Good luck, I'll come visit you on Sundays !

Carl Vilar · From: New Jersey USA

Tony there is fair use in copyright material.
This right is subject to certain limitations found in sections 107 through 118 of the Copyright Act title 17, U. S. Code. Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. The distinction between “fair use” and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material.
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JCH 9/7
1971 Blond Twin Reverb 15" custom
Randall Steel Man 500

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Carl, yes I stand corrected with what you stated above, Fair Use implies for news reporting , discussion and certainly some of the items you listed above, but is not intended for any sort of reproduction in any media format or for any other use.

My response was more directed at recording some tunes and posting clips or segments of clips.

I believe the use of copyrighted material under the limited Fair Use clause must meet pre-approved qualifications.

This is crazy stuff.

tp

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

From what I see here, and in other forums, it's a "Don't ask, don't tell" thing. Probably not strictly legal, but such small potatoes that no one complains.

I think this question belongs in the MUSIC section, more than RECORDING.

I'll move it and hope you can get some answers there.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I agree with Joey. While it technically might be a copyright infringement, it's unlikely that the copyright owner would do anything more than tell you to take down the file. This is small potatoes, and it's probably not worth their lawyer's time to pursue it.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

if someone is asking a question regarding using copyrighted materials, the proper answer should always be to get permission to be legal.

Currently music forums like this one, as stated above, are small potatoes but the music police can make an example out of anyone or any forum should they decide to. Very low risk ? Sure, but still risk.

I have about a dozen projects which I offer out over the internet, Ebay etc, all a licensed, and I state that the projects are licensed in the detail. About a year back I got a strange email requesting the license number regarding one song. I sent them a note back asking that they send there request in writing to my PO box address and I would reply by US MAIL. I never heard from them again. My sister, who was a music producer years back told me that it was probably an affiliate to a publisher for that particular song and the fact that I replied was enough of an answer.

Licensing is not very expensive, the Fox agency charges a $15 fee for a $5 or $7 100 copy license. If there was an easy way around that $15 fee it would be a no brainer to pay the fees for all of the songs, maybe someone knows a fast easy way around the $15 FOX fee's.

Ron ! · Posted 16 Aug 2008 7:07 am

It is illegal as far as posting somebody else's song on the web.Whether this is instrumental or vocal.
David....think about this.....if you would make a couple cool million they will be on you like glue.I don't think that you would be having any trouble with this.
Usually a lot of aspects have to be covered when you do this.....but when you have taken a good look at the music industry lately you will see that they have absolutely no time in prosecuting people that like to put up instructional material that in the long run will make them money.
You are considered small fish......
IMO there is a lot more music piracy going on right now with all these hidden music download site's.

I have to commend you for the fact that you are concerned about something like this......however......I think your concern might be overprotective.

Ron

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think that the word "illegal" is often bandied about when in fact this kind of copyright infringement is a matter for the civil, not criminal, courts. Piracy, the counterfeit reproduction of a copyrighted work, is not what we are talking about here.

Copyright infringement cases related to songwriting are civil cases that must be pursued by the copyright owner in a civil lawsuit. It's not an issue for the FBI or other law enforcement agencies, and you can't go to jail for it. In an extreme case it could ruin you financially, but I think that the likelihood of that is pretty slim.

I challenge our readers to find a case where someone was jailed or even sued for releasing their own performance of a copyrighted song. Technically the songwriter has a very strong case for a lawsuit, but as a practical matter it almost never comes to that.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

correct , not JAIL, but civil can result in handing over cash..30 days in jail may be better !

It's still illegal , just like sawing down your neighbors tree, you won't go to jail but you may have to replace the tree ! Illegal does not mean the DA will come after you, illegal means there are laws on the books to protect an individuals property and privacy as well.

When you go to Jury Duty they make a big deal about stating that there are separate courts, the CIVIL courts , the State Courts and the Federal courts.

It's best not to be a defendant in either Sad

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

If you just want to show how certain pedals are used, you certainly don't have to post a whole song. Seldom are complaints lodged against small excerpts of songs, especially where there are no financial gains, as these could be described arguably under the fair use provisions as "educational" in nature.

However, whenever an entire song is used, there's always a good argument that it will be used for entertainment purposes.

David Doggett · Posted 17 Aug 2008 9:28 pm

Thnaks, guys. Lots of food for thought.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Put photo of can full of worms here...

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada