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Topic: David Hartley..............steel playing |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 5 Jun 2008 3:24 pm |
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For those of you that recently discussed the topic of frets......and who went into depth detailing what role frets play in the story of steel guitar.....
that they're only there to 'approximate' where you should aim for and playing between the frets is the 'norm', etc.
Each of you should take a quick look at David Hartley's excellent video's on U-Tube. He spends no time 'averaging' anything. He's right on the fret in each and every position change.
What is it that I'm missing? |
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ray qualls
From:
Baxter Springs, Kansas (deceased)
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Posted 5 Jun 2008 4:31 pm
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Ray, David Hartley is an "Alien" from another planet. Just kidding of course, but he is the best thing to come along since the invention of peanut butter. I have 36 of his videos downloaded and hope I get 36 more. Ray
_________________
Ray Qualls
Member(KSGA)
Inducted into KSGA
Steel Guitar Hall of Fame 2008 |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 5 Jun 2008 5:07 pm
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Ray, David's a good player, but I think he'd admit he using his ears, too!
What we're trying to do with our "suggestions" about the frets is to get the players to listen, and listen very closely, to what they're doing. Some just try to line up the bar with the frets, and while that's an important aid, it's not all there is to playing with proper intonation. Where the bar is placed, exactly, depends on other factors too. The more bar pressure you use, the further off the fret you'll have to play to stay in tune, as pushing the strings down tightens them, and raises the pitch. Also, those who play with a physically big bar, or those who play in dimly-lit rooms, may not be able to see the frets clearly. They can still play with good intonation, though, as long as they're listening (and as long as they can hear themselves properly).
In fact, I know a blind player who does quite well playing pedal steel. Do you think that he's using the frets?
That's what you're "missing".  |
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Norbert Dengler
From:
germany
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 11:25 pm
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funny, i watched the same videos recently and was
almost shocked to see how precise david uses his bar.
if i compare my own intonation to that i`d better quit.
but then i`m a beginner and i hope that a lot of mileage will improve my technique.... |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 7 Jun 2008 11:29 am Hey Donny.........................
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I've heard this stance before and will likey be hearing it again, and again, HOWEVER.........
If someone is using a HEAVY, Heavy Bar, or so much left hand pressure with the bar, that they have to play off fret, doesn't that say something????
I tho't learning and developing the proper techniques for playing steel guitar correctly, was the very basis for being able to play well and in tune.
JERRY BYRD, for years, used his special combination of Spanish Guitar Strings and they were 'saggy' simply because they were not your regular, every day, tight, stiff steel guitar strings of today.
I NEVER ONCE heard JERRY recommending that you utilize incorrect playing techniques to compensate for one's lack of developed playing abilities.
TWEAKING one's ear, is an ESSENTIAL whether a beginner or long time pro. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 7 Jun 2008 1:03 pm
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| Quote: |
JERRY BYRD, for years, used his special combination of Spanish Guitar Strings and they were 'saggy' simply because they were not your regular, every day, tight, stiff steel guitar strings of today.
I NEVER ONCE heard JERRY recommending that you utilize incorrect playing techniques to compensate for one's lack of developed playing abilities.
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Well, it would seem using "Spanish Guitar" strings (wow, I thought that terms went out with the Mel Bay books and Gibson's initial "ES" designations about 50 years ago...) would *automatically* change your playing technique; you'd have to compromise a strong attack or your strings would rattle like crazy. So I think "JERRY" (capitalization quoted from Ray compensated just as much as any other good player does - they don't always CALL it compromise; they just play in a way that works for them.
And what worked for "JERRY" may not work for everyone else. He's not "the last word" in steel guitar players or technique - he was just a guy, like many others, with a distinctive style.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Mike Poholsky
From:
Kansas, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2008 5:15 am
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Intonation? Just put the bar where it feels right!LOL. For me it is a "line of sight" issue. When i'm down around the third fret, it looks to me that I'm playing behind the fret. Frets 8-12 more dead on. Then there is trouble. 15+ is just about all ear cause I can't see exactly where I'm putting the bar. My hand and bar are in the way, and the frets are closer together. I really have trouble being high on the fret board and making a move back down. ie. fret 20 or 22 back down to 13 or 15. Maybe practicing blindfolded? I'm serious!
_________________
Zumsteel 12 Universal
SGBB
ShoBud VP
'64 Fender Twin Reverb/Fox Rehab
Fender Steel King w/BW 1501-4
FX to Taste |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Jun 2008 11:08 am
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| Quote: |
| If someone is using a HEAVY, Heavy Bar, or so much left hand pressure with the bar, that they have to play off fret, doesn't that say something???? |
No. It doesn't say anything at all, to me. What's important (to me) is the end product, what the player's playing sounds like. I don't care if he's using a rutabaga for a bar, iron-impregnated corn-silk for strings, and a 1958 Bendix diathermy machine for an amp. I care about how he plays...not what he's using. ('Course, that does make me sort of a rarity around here.)
Also, Ray...believe it or not, we know you like Jerry Byrd. |
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Ward Skinner
From:
Mission, TX * R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jun 2008 1:03 pm
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| Ray, I've noticed the same thing with David, he's right on the money each and every time. Smooth as silk, a great picker. I really do appreciate his efforts in putting out those videos for all of us to enjoy. |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2008 4:30 pm
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Dave needs to get his butt to the states and
reintroduce the world to country music as
it should be. Great picker !! 
_________________
Bill |
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Rick Vizzi
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2008 12:04 pm bar
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| Quote: |
"using a rutabaga for a bar"
On my Jeff Newman instructional video "pedal steel techniques" (or is it "intros"?) he plays a song at the end of the video with the barrel of a pistol....  |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 29 Jun 2008 1:58 am
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David's execution I am thinking comes from PROPER PRACTICE thru his years of playing. We've talked about this countless times, when we practice, are we just playing the song or are we open to everything thats going on and working out the kinks on ALL matters at hand ? Davids playing is a fine example of a player dedicated to execution, and I would be willing to bet that he has spent countless hours on various elements of said execution. And it payed off...
tp |
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