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Topic: advice for a beginner purchase |
Jack DArdenne
From:
Hillsborough, NC
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Posted 14 Feb 2008 6:46 pm |
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Hello all,
I know this qustion has been asked many times and I think I have read most of the posts. I just posted in the "wanted to buy" section to see if anyone has anything for sale. I can not spend more than $1000. I am seriously considering a used GFI Student and a new Zum Stage One. The blackjack looks really nice, but I can not afford it. It is my understanding that that the Zum and GFI are not really configurable down the road, does that sound right? Are there any advantages of one over the other? I appreciate any help/advice. I have been trying to read up and learn as much as I can, but it is definitely a little overwhelming.
Thanks,
Jack |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 14 Feb 2008 8:30 pm
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| Jack, pedal steel guitar is NOT the instrument that you want to take up if you are on a tight budget. $1000.00 is cheap in this game. I try to tell people this up front so that they won't be disappointed in the future, because in this pursuit especially you get what you pay for, and it ain't cheap. That being said either one of the guitars above is a good choice. They are both in the same class and will both suit your purpose as a beginner. But be forwarned, you will want to move up if you stay in it. There is plenty of help here on this Forum. |
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Paul Norman
From:
Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 4:17 am
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Jack
Check your PM |
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Trevor Fagan
From:
Newfoundland, Canada
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 5:09 am
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Hi Jack,
You may find an old ShoBud Maverick someplace for five or six hundred bucks. It's really not a bad little guitar to start out with (for very low cost). Only thing is... your limited to 3 pedals and 1 knee lever...but you can always upgrade to another guitar later on. |
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Jack DArdenne
From:
Hillsborough, NC
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 6:29 am
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I actually see a maverick on ebay right now. From what I have read it seems that I should go for something with four knee levers. I reading as much as I can to hopefully make a good purchase that will last me a little while. From what I have read on the forums people seem really happy with the GFI Student and the Zum Stage One and claim they are very close to pro quality. If I could get a year out of either one of these, I would be happy. The GFI I am considering was purchased with four knee levers. At this point I really can not go over $1000.
Thanks |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 6:46 am
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Jack , just don't confuse PRO Quality with a PRO Steel.
A Pro Steel allows you to reconfigure your setup at any time, add or subtract to the configuration etc..
This is why those that are playing LONG TERM have PRO guitars.
Todays PRO Steels allow for multiple raises and lowers for EACH and ANY string. You can GROW into a PRO Guitar but you may be limited with the student Guitar even if it is so called PRO Quality.
My opinion is that you should always buy the best you can, even stretch a tad beyond that. Stay away from the " Thats all I will ever need " philosophy.
Research..
Good Luck
tp |
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Lynn Griffith
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 8:23 am Your First Steel
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| Several people told me when I was researching my first steel purchase to go with no less than a 10 string guitar with minimum 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. I purchased just such a guitar from a Forum member, and can tell you that I found this to be very good advice. Start with a single neck, you can learn C6 or other tunings later if you take to being a steel player. A good used instrument should hold it's value if you take good care of it. Everybody is different, but that advice worked well for me. |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 8:34 am
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I own an D-10 & SD-12 Emmons PP's, an MSA SD-12 Legend, and recently added a Zum StageOne to the flock.
If you stick with it, yes you will want to upgrade to a "pro quality" guitar down the road, but the Zum Stageone will provide you with a quality guitar that has everything you will need to learn on and fit in you budget right now.
Here I am playing mine on a gig at "The Stone" in Hollywood a few weeks ago.
JE:-)>
_________________
Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons S-10PP 3/4 - 79'
Emmons S-12PP 3/4 -78'
MSA Legend SD12 5/5 -06'
Mullen S-12 4/5 - 1986
Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
Walker SS rack system - 12"BW's
Quilter Steelaire Combo |
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Jack DArdenne
From:
Hillsborough, NC
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 8:50 am
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Thanks for the responses!
Could someone explain to me what exactly is adjustable and what is not? My understanding is that Stage One is not adjustable but the Blackjack is? Does anyone know if the GFI Student is adjustable? Is the fact if these are adjustable or not a deal breaker for a beginner?
Thanks,
Jack |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 9:17 am
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The "set-up" of the Zum StageOne is "fixed", but with standard ABC pedals and E-Eb/E-F/Eb-D KL's, the adverage newbie would be busy for a couple of years before out growing one IMHO.
And how many posts have you read on the forum about some one with out any experience "under the hood" asking for help after they tried to add the "lick-of-the-week" change on their guitar when they should have spent the time learning how to play the basic set-up and messed it so bad it wouldn't play properly any more?
JE:-)>
_________________
Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons S-10PP 3/4 - 79'
Emmons S-12PP 3/4 -78'
MSA Legend SD12 5/5 -06'
Mullen S-12 4/5 - 1986
Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
Walker SS rack system - 12"BW's
Quilter Steelaire Combo |
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Mitch Adelman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 9:41 am
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| I totally agree with Jim. I bought a Stage One when they first came out in the mid 80's and it served me well both on and off the stage for more than ten years without any problems. Believe me there is more than a decade of learning on that steel despite its fixed copendant.I wouldn't worry about the future so much because you will have your hands full for many many years with this steel.Its more than good enough. All of Jeff Newman's great courses use only the changes available with this guitar. Those courses alone will tie you up for many many years. After I felt reasonably comfortable with the instrument(which was a long time finishing all of his courses) I upgraded to a pro model.With the extra levers you can start on a another decade or so of "new" licks and practice.You won't be sorry learning on a stage one!IMHO of course. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 10:25 am
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| Excellent advice from Jim and Mitch. |
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Marty Kerluk
From:
Toronto, Ontario Canada
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 11:48 am
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I'm currently learning on my GFI student model. It stays in tune, looks nice and is well engineered NOT at all 'budgety' if that makes sense.
And the Carter starters are also great.
Marty |
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Casey Lowmiller
From:
Kansas
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 11:55 am
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You can really get lost once you start focusing on changing stuff around underneath your steel.
There is alot to be said for the 3X4 configuration. Keep in mind, Lloyd Green has made some great sounds and a pretty good living with a 3X4 guitar.
I'm still a beginner & I have a 4X5 guitar,I usually still use just the 3X4 setup.
Casey
_________________
Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan" |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 11:59 am Re: Your First Steel
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| Lynn Griffith wrote: |
| Several people told me when I was researching my first steel purchase to go with no less than a 10 string guitar with minimum 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. |
Absolutely. This is the best advise anybody can give a beginner.
You can buy a Carter Starter for $5-600. Eventually you'll want something better, but this will keep you going for the first year or 2.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Paul Norman
From:
Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 5:19 pm
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SCOTTY WHO?
and Buddy who? |
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Jack DArdenne
From:
Hillsborough, NC
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 7:41 pm
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| Thanks again for the responses. I am heading up to Billy Copper's place tomorrow to see some guitars in person. I really appreciate everyone's advice. |
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Ron !
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Posted 15 Feb 2008 9:07 pm
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Jack,I played many brands and many different set-ups.I am playing a Nashville LTD 3x4 and it's all I need right now.There are some guitars for sale that are decent and will fit the job ...and ...yes they are under a $1000.
But many players like to have some additional knee-levers and/or pedals after a while.But.......if you are a beginner then a Carter Starter,Zum stage One or GFI will do the trick.The main thing that I did not hear in this topic is that no matter what kind of guitar you have you have to master(skill)blocking and bar technique.That alone will take time....
My advise to you is....don't make any hasty decisions....take time and ask around.
Ron |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 16 Feb 2008 9:10 am
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Jack
Jim, Mitch, Kevin, and everybody else gives great advice. Let me chime in with a couple more things regarding the issues that have been brought up.
The basic copedent (the word used for tuning/pedal arrangement) on the Zum Stage One, GFI, or most current entry-level guitars (not the Maverick) has been recognized for decades as the standard of the industry. As a beginner, this is all you'll need for YEARS of study.
All the instructional material available today, including my own, is written for this tuning.
Without exception, ALL major players of the E9 Chromatic* (see below) tuning use these pedals and levers (Ralph Mooney does NOT play E9 Chromatic). I mean Buddy, Paul, John, Tommy, Sonny, Herby, Russ, Doug, et cetera... ALL OF THEM.
You don't need to be a "pioneer" just yet and think you can mess with the accepted wisdom of 40+ years until you've put in your own years and years of study and accomplishment. Once you can get around on the tuning, you'll recognize the brilliance and versatility of the standard changes.
The Zum Stage One and the GFI are both excellent choices, and the Carter Starter is the most readily available. I'm unfamiliar with the BlackJack but it's gotten some good reviews. I'd avoid a Maverick right now since it's limited in its changes... only one knee lever.
One more caveat: Don't buy a used guitar from eBay if you're a beginner, and don't buy from a pawn shop or a general music store unless you're accompanied by an experienced steel player who knows what a guitar is supposed to look like and play like, and has all its parts. The Carter Starter is an exception in that you can find new ones in most big box music stores that aren't steel guitar specific.
Best to buy from one of the established steel guitar dealers who have a reputation to uphold, or from individuals here in Forumland. Screw-jobs only very occasionally do happen, but the community here, with instantaneous information exchange, pretty much keeps everybody honest and above board.
If you can in any way swing more than a grand, you should try to do it. This is very much of a "get what you pay for" business. You'll find that you'll want more steel guitar toys in the future, believe me.
* The E9 Chromatic tuning is so called because of the addition of the first two "out of sequence" strings of the tuning. With pedal and knee lever changes, almost all of the notes of the chromatic scale can be obtained in one position. I feel the correct name of the tuning should be "E9 Diatonic," but I'm not going to fly in the face of accepted terminology  .
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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