post surgery playing problems..

[Bob Carlucci]

Its now 3 weeks post surgery... I have healed well so far[thank You Lord], and the awful pain down my right arm and shoulder is pretty much gone.. However, often there are residual problems that one must "learn to live with" with surgeries of this type.. Often when a nerve is compressed for months at a time,, it is simply damaged to some extent.. My right hand strength is diminished somewhat, and there is some minor tingling, numbness, nerve sensation in the ring finger and pinky.. It has really affected my playing in a negative way.. lost a lot of dexterity, and my muting ability, speed, precision is not near what it was just 2 months ago.. Even when I was in extreme pain, I could play much better than I do now if only for 5 minutes at a time, until the pain got so bad I simply could not endure it a second longer... So yeah, quite a trade off... I am free of terrible pain, but seem to be left with a substantial loss of right hand fine motor control... Still playing, but its maddening trying to play things I have aced for 50 years, and now they are full of squeeks, squidgets, non sequiters, cut off and missed notes, half hit, half missed runs.. I noticed at some point pre surgery that I could no longer perform the Mr Spock "live long and prosper" salute where you raise your hand and divide your ring and pinky finger from your index finger.. No problem on left hand, still works, but my right hand will no longer do it.. My index and middle finger will stay together, but ring and pinky stay apart, even if I hold them together with my other hand.. They separate as soon as they are released, and that never happened until the disc in my neck went bad.. That is still the case.... I fear that this is permanent, because of how common these types of function losses are in spinal surgery... Not depressed really,, just disgusted, and contemplating selling my steel guitar and most of my other guitars as I just don't need them any more, and 3 or 4 guitars and a bass would serve me just as well as I dunno, 20 or so ..... Just venting.. it is what it is,,,,,

[Lee Rider]

Hi Bob: I had basically the same surgery in 2004. It does take time for nerves to heal after compression. My pain was not as bad as yours pre-surgery but the motor control and numbness were similar. Took me the better part of a year to get back to where I am now, about 80% of function pre-surgery. Mine was left side so playing an armpit guitar was great therapy. My flatpicking did suffer somewhat but the weakness, numbness and pain are pretty much gone.

Good luck with your recovery and be patient!

[Bill McCloskey]

Glad the worst pain is gone — that’s a big win right there.

And yeah, I get why you’re frustrated. For a steel player, even a small change in the right hand feels huge. That’s not complaining, that’s just the truth.

But 3 weeks is still early. Nerves are slow, and you may get more back than it feels like right now.

The fact that you’re still playing says a lot. I’d hold off on selling anything for now and just give it some time.

Hang in there, brother — we’re pulling for you.

[Bruce Coffman]

Sorry for what you’re going thru — sort of “been there, done that”.
Some thoughts:

1) 3wks post-surgery is waaaaay early days. Things will get better.

2) depending on “time in pain” before surgery it may take some time additional time to heal. Things will get better.

3) if you haven’t already, you may wish to seek out a REALLY good (or great) PT — that one factor has helped me more than any other. Things will get MUCH better MUCH faster.

4) I had major-league spinal surgery right before Xmas. My left foot strength and feel — and ability to control my left leg to find/move to pedals — is still really different than pre-surgery. Goofy as shit, actually — but…

things WILL get better.

Cheers,
Bruce

[Bruce Coffman]

BTW, I agree with Bill — waaay too early to even think of selling your gear.

Unless it’s something I want…

[Bob Carlucci]

I have PT today.. I guess the reason I am disgusted is that way too often the nerve symptoms are forever. Seen it way too many times in way too many people, some that are very close to me..Hundreds of YT videos from neurosurgeons say the same thing.. They can relieve pressure on nerves, but that they can not predict a good or bad outcome because all too often there is enough damage done to cause lifetime issues with mobility, dexterity, functionality, fine or even gross motor function and things like shooting pain, electric shock type pain etc.. We'll see I suppose, but playing my pedal steel at maybe 60%???... I just won't want to deal with it..Life goes on, and I'm doing ok, but when I sit down at the steel, if I can't do what I want , I dunno, why even bother? It would annoy me rather than giving any fulfillment.

[Richard Sinkler]

About 15 years ago, I had the same surgery. Mine affected my left arm though. I couldn't control my bar due to weakness. I had a disc in my neck bulging into my spinal cord. Surgery was required to prevent possible paralysis. It took a couple of months get get full use of my arm after that. With 2 vertebra fused, if I want look back when backing my car, I have to rotate my whole upper body as my range of motion was reduced.

But, I have had 6 surgeries on my right arm due to working on an automobile assembly line. The first 3 were done at the same time, carpal tunnel, pinning a tendon back onto my elbow that was tearing off, and repositioning my ulnar nerve from it's "funny bone" location to the inside of my elbow, That happened around 2004.

In 2019, I had 2 more surgeries, trigger finger in my middle finger, and my radial nerve was being crushed (almost flat instead of round). The trigger finger was the worst my surgeon had ever seen. My middle finger is now weaker than my other fingers by a little. That frustrates the heck out of me. It took a few months to recover from that. I still can't pick like I used to be able to.

A couple of years ago, I had to have a tumor removed from my elbow, that luckily was not cancerous.

All these things have affected my playing. I know it's frustrating to have to redevelop some of your technique. But I have seen your love for the steel guitar on here for years, and I know, with a little patience (I have none), you will get past the frustration. Take it slow and easy.

[Larry Dering]

Bob I certainly sympathise with your physical limitations but as other said, way too early to throw in the towel. I get the depression that sets in especially at our ages but you need to focus on the recovery effort and not dwell on any losses at this stage. It took me a year to get the dexterity and most the strength back in my right hand after thumb trapezium surgery. I had the same thoughts to give up and sell my gear due to frustration with my picking hand. I'm glad I didn't take that path. We're not young and healing is slower but I believe you will be happy if you give it time and work with what you got. Keep the faith and never give up.

[Bob Carlucci]

thanks guys, these words of encouragement mean an awful lot.. Went to PT today, and they feel I will get a lot back.. However, they did a LOT of tests, and my right hand is now considerably weaker than my left, including, wrist and shoulder,,, They use hand strength gauges, and a bunch of other techniques.. Lots of loss in R pinky, ring, some in index as well as the outer edge of the right that I use to mute.. Did some playing today,, not too bad, not great but acceptable.. I will go with the thought that it may improve, but even if not, there will be enough left in the tank to stick with it.. The "real" end will come soon enough I guess, why rush it..bob

[Dennis Detweiler]

Yes, keep up the therapy. If I had to go through this, I'd probably have a spongy rubber ball in my hand all day long and squeeze it on a regular basis unless therapy says not to. Keep on it and give it time.

[Lee Rider]

Great to hear! PT and the guitar really made a difference for me; will follow your progress!

[Dennis Lee]

Bob, I recommend getting some compression gloves for the hands. If they are copper infused, all the better. It does take time. Also, supplements such as phosphytidal coline, anything that helps with nerve conduction. You'll come back!

[Dennis A Brown]

I just recently had an injection for a trigger finger (right index) and the ortho surgeon recommended soaking the hand in hot water (with epsom salt) and massaging the area affected to smooth out the swelling and soften the tissues and tendon. He recommended doing this three times a day for at least five minutes. It seems to be helping. After each session (during which I curl and uncurl my grip repeatedly) my hand is more supple and more dextrous. Also I determined that I had caused the injury by trying to open jars using bare hands and a tight grip. Bad move. I'm going to get a jar opener that gets a good grip and can take the load off my hands. Hope this saves somebody else the experience.

[Dave Magram]

Bob,

This may sound a bit whacky, but here goes...

I have suffered some nerve damage from a medical treatment that was affecting my fingerpicking ability on bluegrass banjo and steel guitar and when I recently asked my doctor what he recommended, much to my surprise he said "acupuncture"!

He recommended a certain physical therapy clinic that also offered "electroacupuncture"(EA), which "combines traditional acupuncture with a mild electric current passed between pairs of needles, enhancing therapeutic effects for pain, inflammation, and healing. It is widely used to treat chronic pain, arthritis, and acute injuries, often providing faster relief than traditional, non-electric methods".

To my surprise, the EA sessions were virtually painless:
The acupuncturist inserted about two dozen very thin needles in my forearms, attached tiny wires from a Electrical Muscle Stimulation unit, and adjusted the current so that it caused a mild twitching of the muscles that actuate your fingers.
● The twitching felt odd, but was painless.
● After 30 relaxing minutes of lying down in a dimly lit room, the session was over.

The acupuncturist (also a physical therapist) recommended some light exercises with ordinary rubber bands to tone up both the finger flexor and extensor muscles involved in fingerpicking.
● Much to my surprise, within a day or two after the first session, my fingerpicking felt 20% better, and after six weekly sessions, my fingerpicking felt about 80% better!
● The acupuncturist explained that the electrical current helps rebuild the conductivity across the synapses (the junctions where neurons transmit signals to other neurons and muscle cells) of the nerves controlling your finger muscles .

I had never had acupuncture before, and wasn't expecting much from it, but it certainly seemed to work for me!

I hope you find this helpful.

- Dave

[Marc Muller]

L5/S1 surgery 8 years ago left me with permenant nerve damage in my left leg to my left foot, leaving me with spasms, weakness, numbness and pain. I'd say it negatively affects my left foot but I was never that good at it anyway. Still playing though! Onward!

[Jerry Overstreet]

Following: Some of the same issues mentioned in this thread. Trigger finger follow up in 2 weeks. Spine/Sacro/skeletal etc. MRI next week.

More imaging next week on the spine and probable consult with neurosurgeon depending on what those and the x-rays show.

I realize there are trade offs with surgery, and every situation is different, but I'm trying to learn all I can about negative effects as a result.

[Bob Carlucci]

1 month today... I can still play but so far its had a really substantial impact, and my speed and dexterity are no where near where they were pre surgery. Lots of missed notes, and fingers "cut out" at times.. I would say my playing ability is maybe 60-65 % of what it was 5 weeks ago.. Not just pedal steel either.. Finger picking and flatpicking on Spanish are a problem, and again, speed, dexterity, cleanness, all down substantially.. I don't expect it to improve much, but even some small improvements would be welcomed.. I can't dwell on it, can't get crazy about it, and anyway I don't play for anyone outside of church any more, and even there I am no longer the guitarist, I am the drummer in the praise band at church, and that is still ok.. I think because thats more a gross motor function, and its my fine motor thats been impacted.. We'll see how it goes I guess. At my age its not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.. I had my day, and many decades of playing without issues.. No reason to be bitter.. Still hoping for signs of improvement... bob

[Lee Rider]

Bob: It took me about 4 months to get back to about 90% function. The things I had problems with post-surgery I just did over an over again until I mastered them then took on another challenge. Improvement was tough but I did get back almost all of what I lost at that time. Keep pickin', it is great therapy!

[Bob Carlucci]

thanks for the word of encouragement Lee.. They are helpful.. Like many of us I guess, I want to see results NOW, and have no patience to work on things and wait for the results.. Thats to my detriment of course.. I'll keep your reply in mind, and keep reminding myself I need to be a lot more patient....

[Don R Brown]

1 month today... I can still play but so far its had a really substantial impact, and my speed and dexterity are no where near where they were pre surgery. Still hoping for signs of improvement... bob

Hang in there Bob! You learned it once and I'm betting your determination will help your muscles and brain re-learn it again. Several on here have said you'll need more time. You'll get there.

[Chuck Lemasters]

Hey Bob,
I remember watching Herby Wallace struggle playing for a show after his stroke. Everyone in the room was rooting for him and was 100% OK with his performance. Play what you can, but keep playing…