Upright Bass in Studio Question

George King · From: Woodlawn,Illinois

Does any have any sugestions for recording an upright bass?What is the best way to mic or use a pickup on one?Go direct into the board or use somekind of preamp?Thanks George

Robert Leaman · From: Murphy, North Carolina, USA

The best upright, full bass viol that I ever heard was owned by a good friend who is long gone. He had a German Jusieg double bass with an Ampeg pickup that was part of the fiddle stick (prop that extends from the bass body to the floor). The fiddle stick was made by Ampeg and it had a microphone that was inside the bass' body and up about 14 inches from the lowest part of the body. It could be connected directly to a board and/or used with a bass amplifier.

I have no idea where my friend got his microphone or even if Ampeg makes such a thing today.

Keith Cordell · From: San Diego

uprights are a bear to amplify or record well. In a session I'd recommend a good condenser mic, off axis between the bridge and the F-hole, about 4 inches from the body. Be prepared to spend some time on the EQ or it will be muddy or artificial sounding. A really good mic pre helps.

TonyL · From: Seattle. WA

I've done a bunch of sessions on upright bass; mostly for roots music. I usually use 2 mics, one about a foot or two away from a soundhole ( there tends to be a sweet spot on different basses) , and the other above the fingerboard. Some sessions I also had a pickup on the bass as well.

TL

basilh · From: United Kingdom

It has always been the accepted 'Norm' to mike a bass with a good ribbon mike. The standard one is the BBC Coles 4038 one.

http://www.soundpure.com/showManufacturer.do?id=38
http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/index.htm

The acoustic bass is one of the hardest instruments to record in my opinion. Being a classic stringed instrument it has all the sound areas - bow area, bridge, and soundboard and soundhole. It depends on the style of music as to how you mike it but the hardest is the straight plucked jazz bass. The BBC technique is to use the mike (Coles 4038 or equivalent (6" - 10") from the bridge. This will emphasise the attack of the fingers with the added hardness that the bridge sound has. Another mike (U-47 type) can also be added that is aimed at the sound hole which will emphasise the warmth and lower frequencies. A mix of these two should cover it nicely. Many bass players have an electric pickup on their bass and a combination of direct pickup and mike works well as the pickup adds presence.

Be very careful about the low end of the sound. It may sound silly but quite often to get a good bass sound you have to remove bass from the signal. A low end rolloff from around 80 - 100Hz can stop the bass from sounding muddy or a dip around the low mids at 200 - 300Hz will also work. There is a lot of energy in the low end of an acoustic bass and reasonable compression can help to contain it.

[This message was edited by basilh on 03 November 2006 at 12:58 AM.]

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

My favorite setup is a large diaphram condensor (usually a U47) about a foot out and look for the sweet spot between the bridge and the f-hole. Then I wrap a small diaphram condensor (usually a KM84) in some foam and wedge it in the bridge pointing up at the neck--blend to taste with a little compression...

(oh yeah, I take the pickup, too, if there is one...)

[This message was edited by John Macy on 03 November 2006 at 07:29 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I am an upright bass player, and recording engineer.
It IS a very difficult instrument to record well.

I am in general agreement with TL, Bas and John M.

And I find the sweet spots, both high and low are different on different songs.
Especially if the mic is very close to the table.

Figuring the low notes are only developing 4, 8, 16 FEET out from the bass,
the best you can do
in the 6" to 4 foot range
is to get on a upper harmonic series that
is sympathetic to the song key.

Have them play the song to be recorded
and move the mic around till it seems most balanced for the notes in play.

Then mute that one.

Then use the second mic, for an INVERSE sound to the 1st.
Different possition on the sound board / F hole? top or bottom of body.

Then record BOTH tracks.
This gives you a choice of the best possible sound after it's in the can.
And you can to some extent blend the mics to
even out the sound.
Of course you MUST listen for phase issues too.

Of course bowed and plucked and slapped
ALL get miced a bit differently.

I play classical, trad/ethnic, and jazz,
so I run into all the possible problems.

It's harder for me,
because I HAVE to play it,
and can't just move the mic around
while it's being played.

If you change song and key drastically
you MAY need to move mics a touch.

What works in C F G will not work so well
in Bb Eb F,
but won't be so bad in G C D
for example.
A half steep in key will be problematic in general.

The last upright I recorded, besides my own,
was 210 years old and sounded GORGEOUS,
and was JUST as hard to record.

The best pickup I have recorded with is David Gage's realist pickup.
It is mounted under on foot of the bridge,
in hard contact with the table.
A quite acceptable sound.
But not like doing the REAL micing job.

Another real consideration is placement in the room,
ref walls, corners & hard obsticals,
find the sweetest place in the room for the song,
THEN mic it up.

I have used Coles and U-47's and Brauner Valvet and U-87
And was surprised that the Earthworks SR-71's worked great as a pair.

I just got a Shineybox 23 ribbon mic,
and will do a bass recording with it shortly.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 November 2006 at 11:35 AM.]

George King · From: Woodlawn,Illinois

Man , this is more complicated than I thought.I just wanted to do some ole 4/4 Johnny Bush style stuff here in my home recording studio.I will have to research this some.Thanks for all the info.George

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

1st try near the bridge
about 6" or a foot above the F hole
But aiming down.
You get the top,
the slaps if they happen,
and the bottom through the F hole
of the lowest resonant cavity.

But the main thing is have it played
in the key of the song,
put on headphones and move the
mic around and LISTEN.
At some point most all the different notes
will sound sorta balanced.

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

Here's what I've found to work for me. Wrap a dyanamic mic such as a Shure 57 in a piece of foam rubber and wedge it between the tailpiece and the top of the bass about 6-12 inches from bridge. Then place a condenser mic in a stand about 3 feet in from of the bridge / f hole area. Record these on two seperate tracks and then mix them together to get the best sound. I think you'll find that the mic on bass gives you a defined mid-range sound and the mic in the stand give you the boomy sound.

Also, I turn the most of the upper mids and highs off. The bass doesn't produce much sound in these frequency ranges and if it does it's usually unwanted noise like string sqweak or slap. Some compression is usually good if the player is not consistant with their volume. (I've had several bass players that are loud on one string and soft on the other.)Sounds like THUMP thump THUMP thump.

That Johnny Bush stuff with the good 4/4 shuffle is hard to beat.

You can hear some of my home recordings on my web site (link below). I recorded the bass this way on these and I was pleased with it.

Good luck and enjoy yourself!!!!

------------------
Emmons Lashley Legrande D-10 8/4, Peavey Nashville 400, Peavey Nashville 112, Peavey Bandit, Baggs Fiddle Bridge, Peavey Profex II, Several Fiddles, Fender Tele and Strat, Martin Guitars, Eastman Mandolin, Johnson Dobro, Rich and Taylor Banjo, Yamaha Keyboard, Upright Bass, Stratocaster, Yamaha Bass, Korg Tuners.

racmusic.tripod.com

Mike Fried · From: Nashville, TN, USA

I recorded my friend Kevin "Swine" Grantt (an A-Team guy) here at the house awhile back. On his suggestion, I had him face his upright bass into an open corner of my living room about five feet out and placed a large-diaphragm condenser in the corner, facing the "sweet spot" as described earlier. It worked beautifully, a very even and round sound that required little eq beyond the usual shaping for the track.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Some really good advice here! I usually have good luck with two mics, and it really helps to take the time to move the mic around to find the sweet spot.
If you have it in a good sounding room, a mic a few feet back in omni can sound fantastic.
In a pinch, get down on the floor and move your head around in front of the bass and you'll hear where it sounds sweet.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

One addition
sometimes... but not always,
with a great sounding corner or walls combination
and the freedom to really place the bass best
for the wall or walls,

a figure 8 mic can be made to get a very good sound.

But this usually isn't 45 degrees from the corner,
but say a ways to the left of one wall and
a differnt distance from the other one,
and some angle of the bass and mic
sort of splitting the two.

The mic is placed closer to the bass than walls,
just above the F hole,
but not too close

With luck and good ears, you can get
BOTH sets of room nodes working to augument the basses nulls,
relative to the songs key.
AND get some long distance return of
fuller developed bass freq. waves from the walls.

The distance of the return won't affect the sound negatively,
But you have the 'chance" of getting a full range of the instrument smoothly,
into one mic.

I will be trying this with the Shiney box ribbon when I get a chance.

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