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Topic: Home made steel advice, got any? |
Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 4:08 pm |
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Requesting help from those who've 'been there, done that' and know what not to do.
After seeing a unique(?) factory original solid wooden body/neck version of a Rick Bakelite (with a lusious 2 tone burst) on Ebay years ago, that simply screamed tone, I've decided to try replicating it myself since the horseshoe mag PUs are easily available now.
What common pit falls await me?
I plan on starting with a light weight plank of suitably resonate wood (suggestions?) and simply removeing everything that isn't EXACTLY per a B8 Bakelite body w/strings thru of the post war era. The neck will not narrow as the Rick's do toward the nut, but stay consistant with the bridge spacing.
The PU cavity depth and mounting set up is still to be determined (Prof. Rick?!), as well as whether 'chambering' the body (ala, the new $$$ Les Paul's) would be audibly advantagious. Even less weight..., which IS a major goal as it will be packed a lot.
Crude and simple minded, yes, but if it works, viola!
Outside of perfect setup/playability, TONE is of paramount importance. With a Creller/Aiello/Lollar/Rick PU going in, my main concern is having transference of string vibration at the nut and bridge to the body at it's optimum, and a wiring set up (maybe one allowing a direct PU to jack option ('no load' pot?).
I'm not looking for ultra highs, just sweetly defined uppers with a solid mid and bottom.
Last, a properly marked 22 1/2" scale fret board...
Any thots/ideas? |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 5:24 pm
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| The PU cavity depth and mounting set up is still to be determined (Prof. Rick?!) |
The pickup bay dimensions are no biggie ... I'll email 'em to you when you need them.
I went with a solid "mount" ... the height set for the specific tuning/gauges on each pan.
It took a couple days to get exact ... but its nice.
It can be adjusted from the rear ... even with the strings on ... but unless some major change in string gauge occurs ... theres no need to.
I even used "Loctite" when it was done ...
Can't have loose nuts  
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My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 5:29 pm
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Oh ... and pick up a mechanical drawing program such as DeltaCad ...
Paper patterns sure make stuff easier to do ... |
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Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 5:42 pm
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Ron,
I built a beautiful Fender Deluxe 8 style from dimensions and photos supplied on this forum and "Brads' Page of Steel". The guitar is beautiful and 100% "home made". Specialty tools include a Craftsman router, drill press, band saw, scroll saw and belt sander. The tuners are 4-on a stick mandolin tuners and since I couldn't locate an "ash tray", I mounted them on 1" aluminum angle stock and set them in the routed out tuning pan hole. The center piece is matching birds eye. All metal parts like cover plates, bridges and nuts are stock aluminun or brass rod, also available from the hardware store.
I should have used ash for the wood but couldn't resist using a nice piece of birds eye that I found. The Guitar can get real treblie if you let it but it is fine with EQ. I differed from the Deluxe by routing the body for a True Tone pick up that sounds great, however it is now fixed in place and can't be moved forward or backwards without looking funny. I've planned for that by allowing the bridge to be moved from 22.5 to 23.5 and that may fix the extra treble from the birds eye.
There are several fret scale calculaters available on the web for free. My 22.5 fretboard is temporary-for tweaking purposes-and is made from acrilic hardware store sheets. I traced the frets on the protective paper and cut them out with an exacto knife. I spray painted the frets, peeled the paper off and mounted it paint side down on the guitar..looks pretty good. Now I'll try a 23" scale and see how it sounds with the bridge a little farther from the pickup.
My next project is on the drawing board now-a D-8. I have a big chunk of seasoned ash for this one. I'll go with my own design this time and may experiment with sliding pickups for dialing in that sound.
It really wasn't a big deal to make. The most time was spent getting the drawings right. Electronics a readily available and cheap and I've been experimenting with different cap and pot styles for a good boo-wha effect. StewMac.com has wiring charts and plenty of help in that area.
Good luck! I play mine alot and it is a real joy to hear your own guitar in the studio.
Tom Jordan
By the way, tried three different tunings-C6, A6 and E13. Considering the density of maple the E13 (g# on top) sounds the best to me...I think there is a thread in here that discusses that same issue of what tuning for what neck.[This message was edited by Tom Jordan on 23 October 2004 at 06:55 PM.] |
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Terry Farmer
From:
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 9:36 pm
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...I plan on starting with a light weight plank of suitably resonate wood (suggestions?..
A lot of folks use Honduras Mahogony. You may want to laminate a thin (about 1/4")piece of whatever fine wood you want on the top of the Mahogony body. That helps to stabilize the body wood from any future warping and twisting. Chambering is a controversial subject. Personally, I prefer not to because I feel mass is good for sustain. But then again,look at the Harmos. It has very little mass and sustains well, so I may be all wet on the chambering issue. In my opinion, the best thing you can do for good tone is to maximize the fit between your bridge and body. Tight is good! Also, you can't go wrong with a Lollar/Aiello pickup. I've got one in my first homebuilt and have two more ordered. Just ask questions as you go along. There is plenty of great advice here on the forum. Good luck. |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 12:29 am
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| I would question the light-weight wood and chambering, especially since you say tone is of paramount importance. In my experience, rock maple and solid ash are your best bets. As far as i know, Bakelite didn't resonate at all. [This message was edited by Dan Sawyer on 24 October 2004 at 01:31 AM.] |
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Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 4:29 am
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| The Pickup,pickup placement, and bridge mounting I beleive is 99% of the tone. Every piece of wood has a different density.I currently have a Bakelite,A Fiberglass, and wood and some Aluminumn cast and solid bodies prototypes, and different players have different responses. on each. Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works. |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 6:34 am
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I ran across a couple of already cut solid-body electric guitar blanks made of Koa and bought them for $5 each, thinking I could glue them together to get one piece long enough to cut out a lap steel from. Any suggestions on what kind of joint to use to glue these two chunks together?
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Donald Ruetenik
From:
Pleasant Hill, California, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 7:06 am
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| Plan on making at least two. The application of acguired knowledge from the first being justification. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 11:46 am
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Before you guys get too heavily indebted and perhaps even a little crazy, rounding up your exotic woods and hand crafted parts.......you really should communicate with Forumite Bill Stafford.
He has/had or whatever, a really futuristic looking steel and played it to the indisputable amazement of everyone in the audience. The TONE, I understand, was second to none. There was no noteable cabinet drop,
it was natural wood without finish, was solid as a rock and did not jiggle or wriggle while being played. Its' shape was not geometric (sp?)or space agey, but rather, was more a basic shop type "saw horse". The economics of this great steel guitar were obvious to everyone that saw it. A great steel guitar for beginners and professionals alike...... With the development of that guitar, there clearly could be a steel guitar in everyone's home. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 11:57 am
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| Just remember that when you are all done and it is beautiful (I have confidence in you), drill a few holes in it, get yourself some coat hangers and install a couple of pedals. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 10:19 pm
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| Thanx for all the input so far guy's! You've gotten to points that I meant to mention initially, such as the warping factor, best types of wood for certain tunings, PU placement, etc. All of which I will ask more about when time allows. |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 10:39 pm
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| "Install a couple of pedals" Oh yeah… ROTF-LMAO! |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2004 7:53 pm
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Rick, the gauges will be going thru a trial period to find what I like best on this. Thanx for your thots and offer.
Terry, I like the Honduras Mahogany suggestion, how would Philippine Mahogany fare? The bridge fit is indeed a major concern.
What were the old fly weight Dickerson's made of? I'm thinking of going super light and compensating with mega (clean and unseen) anchoring at the bridge and nut.
Ed/Tom, I agree about the positioning of the PU. Do you think the PU placement for the Bakelites was optimum, would it be different on a wooden copy?
Terry, ordinarily the cap would be great, except that the body will not be a flat plank but as exact a copy of the wooden Rick mentioned as possible, which had a carved top. I wish I could post a pic of it, you'd understand why I'm bothering with this project.
Tom, thanx for the fret scale idea, I'll be searching.
Ray, I'll be contacting Bill to pick his brain, for sure. Mahalo!
This input should help a lot. Any more thots out there? |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 25 Oct 2004 8:30 pm
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Okay, here's a serious one I've always contemplated...
What about a light wooden body with some kind of really heavy cast metal face or base plate? |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 26 Oct 2004 10:33 am
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| The steels I have heard with the aluminum plate sandwiched in the wood have great tone, but I didn't hear what kind of wood was used. Duke Ching's ash frypan sounds a little like his Stringmasters, and it's two layers of ash glued together with epoxy glue. I believe that a string-thru design would solve the bridge area string attachment issue. All this theory goes out the window, when you hear an old Magnetone with MOTS finish sound great, and is light as balsa wood. |
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Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2004 12:15 pm
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| My personal opinion is the "Thru the Body" has very little to do with the sound.Because there is such a range in PU that is probably the "SOUND". To prove my point, take an old piece of "Junk" wood of any kind and switch pickups of different brands and let your ears decide.The harder the wood the "Fatter" PU works better. OK now you can pounce on me. Ed |
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Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 26 Oct 2004 12:39 pm
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Actually Ed, you may have saved me some work by trying an double coil pickup, instead of moving the bridge and making a new fretboard. The TrueTone single coil is pretty wide and I could most likely drop a double coil in the same hole...
Now, where do I find an 8 string humbucker?
Tom Jordan |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2004 1:29 pm
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| Tom- Call me sometime at 1-800-749-3363. I may have some used PU or maybe can find one or have one wound for you. ED |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2004 6:53 pm
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Jeff, I was considering a 1/4" (or less) form fit plate of brass on the entire bottom if the project proves unsatisfactory to see if it has a positive effect. There used to be a product availabe for guitars that was a slab of brass that afixed to the back of the headstock to improve sustain. The reviews were good.
There have been many steels made with slabs of metal incorporated in the design thru the decades, and I believe most benefitted from it.
Andy, thanx for the great archive lead. I knew there was plenty to dig up on the subject, but too little time lately for that, and I wanted to get feed back on this particular project. But lot's of good info.
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Terry Farmer
From:
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2004 8:04 pm
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Ron, I imagine any kind of mahogony would be fine. A lot of Les Pauls have solid mahogony bodies and some with maple caps. If you want a carved top, make the cap thicker to accomodate the the depth of the carving. The lamination will still be good for the stability of the guitar even if it's a lamination of the same kind of wood. I've seen Mahogony warp and twist like crazy.
Jeff, I will be testing your theory pretty soon. I'm building two steels right now, Mahogony bodies with Koa caps. They will be short (no headstock) for air travel convienience and they will have a 1/4" thick removable aluminum bottom with bridge and nut anchoring to the aluminum. I will try them out with and without the aluminum bottom and see if I can tell any difference in the sound. They will be done in a couple of months with any luck. |
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Bill Leff
From:
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Oct 2004 7:35 am
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Ron:
My Bill Asher "Ben Harper" is a chambered mahogany body, with a koa top. The construction may be different than you are contemplating though. There is a solid block of mahogany that extends from the headstock through to the end of the guitar. The sides are added "wings". There are 8 circular chambers.
Andy Volk's Lap Steel book has some nice pictures of this. |
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