Help me understand what I've been doing ?

Ed Altrichter · From: Schroeder, Minnesota, USA

I've been playing a Dobro for a while, and I do pretty well on songs like "Orange Blossom Special", "Greensleeves", "Steel Guitar Rag", and a slew of others... I play just for my own entertainment, and for a few friends.
But I'm thinking about buying a lap steel; in fact, I have one on order, and it scares me when I come here and read words like: "Ionian Scale", "Modal Theory", "Whole note boxes" and other technical terms too numerous to mention . That all sounds so esoteric; do I really need to know all that ? If I do, how can I apply that to my Dobro so I can understand what people are talking about ?
(Or, how much of what I find on the Dobro can be applied to this 8-string I've got coming?)

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Music is all about the relationship of notes. There is a science to it. I would suggest you start to learn some basic music theory. Get a book, surf the web--there's a lot out there--your playing will benefit from learning the "ins and outs" of theory.
Try searching the web for "music theory".
There's a lot out there, but I'd recommend getting some basic music books. It all depends on how far you want to go with it.

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

Ed,

I agree with Mike. But approaching it from the angle I think your question was intended:

You don't NEED to learn anything more than you already have. You can simply tune your lap steel up like your dobro and go for it with whatever methods you learned the slew of songs you already know. I would actually suggest you do that for awhile to get the feel of what you already know, on a different instrument (but not all that different).

It is perfectly OK to not persue music terms, theories, etc by which Musicians communicate ideas to each other. There are other methods as you have already found out in the slew of songs you have already learned. Some of the best known Musicians knew only the passive theory terms they picked up along their Musical journey.

But if or when you want to learn more, you would have to choose what of the mysteries of music you want to learn ...or ask the forum here what they suggest, to accomplish a particular purpose or direction you desire to go in.

Have you tried tablature? It is a means of learning songs from a very intuitive and reasonably simple charting system ....although there are a few symbols that need to be learned to read tablature reasonably effective, ...and aren't very mysterious. There is a tablature section on this Forum. But even without knowing the symbols you would have a source to tell you where to put the bar and what strings to play ...and you could deal with the rest by whatever methods you've learned in the past (although I highly suggest learning the symbols because they will show you technique and nuances).

Here is a very short basic music theory refresher webpage. If you read it 5 times I would venture to say with heart-felt assurance that ALLOT of mystery would be unveiled.

There are several good learning packages with books and audio recordings and some with video too; BUT, they will also have just as many musical terms to learn for the mystery to evaporate, that you seem to want to avoid.

----------

Those myserious musical terminologies you referred to are actually just labels for different aspects of pretty simple / easy stuff at an intermediate level where basic music terminology has already been learned; ....except for "modal theory" which is a VERY broad if not infinite abstract study of different ways to use scale notes and their relationships to each other. BIG difference between the term "modal theory" and the very simple study of modes ...which just explains the 7 fully harmonious scales and how they relate to each other.

Ionian simply means Major 7 scale; THAT'S ALL. Nothing else to it ...unless you want to learn the other 7 names for the other 7 fully harmonious scales. Using mode names is a shortcut for using longer names; For instance Locrian is the same thing as "half diminished", and both terms shorter than saying "minor 7 flat 5 flat 6 flat 9"; No different at all than saying "minor" rather than saying "flat the third note of a Major scale". All pretty dog-gone easy stuff at the intermediate level.

Hope this helps provide some tid bits of answers to the very broad question you asked.

Best of wishes in your Steel endeavors; ENJOY; And be sure to continue to ask tje Forum here any questions you might have.

Aloha,
Denny Turner~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 05 June 2004 at 08:43 AM.]

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Ed, same here. Many years ago I learned a lot of bluegrass and other tunes by memorizing postions. I knew the how's but didn't know the why's. In other words, I knew a lot of licks to string together. Kind of no meat and all potatoes. After a 15 year hiatus, I couldn't remember how to play any of the tunes that I knew.

I am now taking a basic music theory class and it is helping me. Just knowing the basic relationships, intervals, reading, and ear training is a great help. I find that a "live" class does a more thorough job than reading a book by yourself. Constructing the various scales and intervals by writing them out manually, is really helping me.

This is a basic foundation and stepping stone to understanding the language of music. This basic knowledge, applied to the instrument really helps in understanding what you are doing and how to get to where you want to go.

[This message was edited by HowardR on 05 June 2004 at 08:56 AM.]

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

These terms are really a language for easy communication between players to enhance interaction. They speed explaining what everybodys gonna do to play a tune/part/show.

BTW ionian is the major scale (do re mi fa so la ti do) in C against C major 7th it fits.

The same C major scale is G Myxolydian (G is the fifth of C ) when applied against G blues/ rock stuff it generally fits.

But keep playing by ear, he who is completely by these rules is precise and predictable = boring IMO.

Travis Bernhardt · From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

You probably don't need to know that much theory, and what little you need should present few difficulties. There are only a few important concepts (rhythm, scales/modes/key signatures, chord construction/intervals, voice leading... maybe a couple of others I can't think of right now), and they're only as hard as you make them. By that I mean the more you get into it the harder you can make it, but if you just want to learn enough to be able to communicate with other musicians, it's pretty straight forward.

Once you know some basic ideas you'll have a framework with which start training your ear. You'll learn to identify what rhythms or scales or chords are being played by just listening.

My point is, it's useful to learn a little theory, and it's really not that hard to do--so don't be scared off by a few terms like "Locrian" or "Mixolydian."

A word, though. Denny's modal theory site can, in my opinion, make the subject seem more difficult than it really is. Not a knock--I learned a lot from it and use those concepts ALL THE TIME. It's just that he goes into the kind of lap steel specific detail that you might not want to read when you're just learning about modes for the first time. It can be a little overwhelming. Still, the information is good, and it does apply directly to the lap steel, so I can't really recommend against it. Just remember that if it seems too hard, take a step back and make sure you're not making it too hard. It should be pretty simple.

As for applying it to your dobro, it will definitely help your dobro playing. It's helped mine for sure. For just one example, knowing a little theory helps me to find slants, and then to identify what those slants would be good for in different musical contexts. Playing in a bluegrass style means you won't do too much Jerry Byrd style slanting and sliding around, but those slants can also be played as forward or backward rolls, or the notes can be hammered onto, etc. I find this adds some colour to my dobro playing, and helps me to dodge cliches when I've been playing bluegrass all night and I'm running out of licks...

The modal theory stuff can be applied directly to a G tuned dobro, the only caveat being that without that "sixth" string (an E note in the G tuning) you won't find ALL the notes of a given mode within a two fret box.

Finally, like Chuck said, follow your ear. Your ear comes first, the theory follows. It's easy to get bogged down, sometimes.

That's all.

-Travis

Bob Hickish · From: Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.

ED
Try this on you new 8 string top to bottom

G
E
D
B
G
D
B
G

Look familer !
Go for it Ed ! have fun

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