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Topic: Lead guitarists. |
Billy Murdoch
From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 9:42 am |
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Hi All,
I play a weekend gig in a four piece band at a small pub.
The two guitar players are very good and remind me several times that the steel is too loud,I am not a loud player although I do have a hearing problem,my amp is directly behind me and to hear myself play I play at what I reckon to be the correct volume.I notice people in the crowd making signs to me to "come up a bit"they can't hear me.That is when the lead players tell me I am too loud,they also hate it when someone comments on the Steel playing,They just cannot see or hear anyone but themselves.
Are all Lead players like this?
Best regards
Billy |
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 9:46 am
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Billy,
Most of them 
Lead singers too!
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73 PROII,8&4, Steelking, Hilton pedal, USA Tele, Fender Twin,Peterson tuner,Tut Taylor Reso's and Twang to the Bone!!
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Stephan Franck
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 11:12 am
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| Easy there, Larry... |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 11:32 am
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Maybe they have a steel player so they can look like a country band.  |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 11:36 am
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If you can, point the amp away from your and especially the lead players' ears, at the place where people in the audience that tell you that it's not loud enough are.
Mainly, if you want the gig, you have to do what it takes to get through it. I take it gigs don't grow on trees over there.
I had a situation last year where a couple things happened. One, a long time non working steel player came in and watched and listen to the band I was in. All he did was complain about how loud it was. Loud and long, and on the internet to boot. I wrote him off.
Another working player of local acclaim came into a gig I was playing and proceeded to tell me that my mix was dogsh##, and that I needed to come WAY up and out front as if it was a steel guitar band. At the time, his band was more than considerind firing him, and I eventually did get fired from that gig, but more for trying to get the people to quit dressing like bums than my playing, however I did note that I got fired right after I brought the SG up to the proper level.
It's always something, and it's what you can live with to get what you need out of the gig. Whatever it is.
Forget about the other people.
It's all about YOU in the end. Mostly whether YOU want to keep playing gigs.
I have no choice, for now.
EJL |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 12:21 pm
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| Quote: |
| Are all Lead players like this? |
No. I've been playing lead guitar a lot longer than steel. I love to hear steel, and have never wanted any steel player to turn down. I know plenty of guitar players who love steel and will back out of the way when appropriate.
But I think b0b has a point - in some rootsy Americana bands and singer-songwriter aggregations I've seen, I sometimes see the steel used more as a prop than as an instrument, as if they like the idea of a steel more than the reality of it.
I agree with Eric - point your amp away from everybody in the band. I sit all the way stage right and angle my amp a bit towards the right end, away from the other guys. If you have house sound, use the amp purely as a personal monitor - if you don't, you need to figure out how to still project to the audience while minimizing your volume to the rest of the stage.
Of course, some musicians (not just lead guitar players) have uncontrollable egos, and are completely insecure if anybody else gets any attention. Not much you can do about that - well, there is, but if it gets that bad, I'm outta there. |
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 12:41 pm
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All true guys. All in all , I like to point my amp a little away from everyone else and tilted back a little so that I can hear it ok. After that it should be fine as long as you have a good front of the house man. Even with no sound man at all, if you can get through a couple of sets without too much problem its probably not too far off. Remember, most of the folks in a club situation are not really listening to you in in the first place. The ones that are will give you the feed back that you need (good or bad)other than that.... do your job, smile, TAKE THE MONEY
I have been a lead player myself for many years and I can tell you first hand....we can be a jealous bunch!!
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73 PROII,8&4, Steelking, Hilton pedal, USA Tele, Fender Twin,Peterson tuner,Tut Taylor Reso's and Twang to the Bone!!
[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 22 April 2006 at 01:43 PM.] [This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 22 April 2006 at 01:45 PM.] |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 12:57 pm
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It's not the Instrument..it's the Musician..
always is.. |
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Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 1:05 pm
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Larry R.,,,,
Come on,,, You know we're not all like that!!! lol..
If I'm playing lead I'll tell a steel player he's to loud [if he is]!!
The same as I expect him to tell me "I'm" to loud, if that's the case!
I'm constantly telling the bass player she's to loud!!!! But you know how bass players are,,she listens to me about as much as when I tell her I don't want to do the dishes!! lol..
Seriusly, some folks just have Ego problems!
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"Fessy" S/D 12, 8/6 Hilton Pedal, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"
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Marlin Smoot
From:
Kansas
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 2:13 pm
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| I don't think we don't get paid for playing...we get paid for setting up and tearing down. With some bands, playing is something we do to kill time between the setting up and the tearing down for the evening. Take the money and run. |
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Michael Holland
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 2:41 pm
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Aren't we all just trying to be heard over the drummer?!  |
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Archie Nicol R.I.P.
From:
Ayrshire, Scotland
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 3:02 pm
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Sigh! I hear you, Billy. But only just.
Lead players? Bawbags, the lot!
Could somebody tell them;
WE DON'T NEED THAT VOLUUUUUUUUME IN A SMALL JOINT.
Cheers, Arch. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 3:51 pm
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| Billy,I know it's hard sometimes,but try to find or try to put together a band comprised of REAL PROFESSIONAL pickers that know when to play and most of all when NOT to play,and know how to complement the other members of the group.Some people could screw up a one car funeral procession,and it takes only one amateurish player to screw up a good band.One prima donna in a band is TWO to many. |
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Stephan Franck
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 4:37 pm
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As a (sometimes) band leader, I'll tell you this: When I pay to have a steeler in the band, I really want to make sure he can be heard...
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www.mojaveroad.net
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Don Barnhardt
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 7:40 pm
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| Billy...Maybe you should use 2 amps. One in front of you and pointed at you; the other one positioned and set to suit the house/band. On the other hand you may just be playing with people who like to bitch. Some people are like that you know. |
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Billy Murdoch
From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 3:04 am
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Thanks to everyone for the advice,your help is certainly appreciated.
At last nights gig I decided to turn right down during the vocal passages of songs and play the break at an "audable"volume.
on several numbers I get the first break with the lead guitar taking the second break,
sometimes we do half a break each.
Lasn night I got half a break on a lot of numbers that i usually get the full solo, however I just smiled and waved at the pretty girls in the crowd and took the money at the end of the night.
Best regards
Billy |
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Bill McKillop
From:
Glasgow, Scotland
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 9:27 am
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Hi Billy,
You know my thoughts on those three guys. Thay all think they're Brent Mason. Some hope! I know you are not too loud and I keep on telling you. I think it's about time you told these guys where to go. That's sure to heat them up.
Your pal
Billy |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 9:52 am
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To help solve the volume level on stage issue I get to know the sound man. For a couple years I would bring a set list to the soundman and ask if he would note when I was too loud or not loud enough. Its a tricky thing learning how to balance dynamics. My goal was to be able to have the sound man or more importantly the producer in recording sessions just set me on unity and I would do the rest. If there is no soundman find a musician that isn't obsessed with the steel to take notes for you.
As far as band members telling me anything about my volume it depends on if they are idiots or not. It sounds like the guys complaining at your gig are idiots. I just say thank you, pretent to turn a knob and basicly ignore them. I also make a note to myself to look for a better gig.
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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website
[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 23 April 2006 at 10:54 AM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 10:21 am
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quote:
Could somebody tell them;
WE DON'T NEED THAT VOLUUUUUUUUME IN A SMALL JOINT.
Hey man! I need that VOL-YUME to get the amp distortin' good, gotta have that sustain, gotta have that fuzz, gotta have that overdrive.
Yes, sad to say, the world is chock full of "lead players" who would stutter and stammer without some sort of crunch, overdrive, distortion, or fuzz-sound.
Jimmy, Leon, I sure do miss hearin' you guys. |
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Chris Erbacher
From:
Sausalito, California, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 11:37 am
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| i just quit the band i was playing in for mainly this very reason. people were always telling me and the rest of the group that i needed to be turned up, but i think a lot of the thing with lead players is the ego. they get used to being the loudest and the guy who gets to shine, and anyone who threatens this position, is told to turn down. not all lead players are like this i understand, but the ones i have encountered are. i'm currently shopping for bands that are searching for a steel player and/or have such unique instrumentation that the lead guitar syndrome can be avoided. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 3:10 pm
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"i think a lot of the thing with lead players is the ego. they get used to being the loudest and the guy who gets to shine, and anyone who threatens this position, is told to turn down."
Chris, That kind of thinking would, or should, get anybody fired, regardless of his instrument. When I take a lead ride, I WILL be heard---And when the steel, keyboard, trombone, or ocarina takes HIS ride, I lay out. Simple enough, to me! |
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Dave Zielinski
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 5:06 pm
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TOny Prior said it right up above....
"its the player, not the instrument"
Eventually, these other guys in the band will grow up, lose their egos, or have a long list of bands that fall apart. I think we've all quit this type of band more than once.
I ended up atarting my own band with guys that have been there before too. we are very volume conscious and make sure everyone is happy, and not deaf!
Good luck! |
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Don Powalka
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 5:30 pm
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I had a rather unique way of dealing with this problem. I played my steel with my guitar in my lap and switched off between them both. I sure couldn't yell at myself for being too loud!!!!
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Fender Strat Fender Tele Gibson Les Paul ShoBud U12 Genuine Dobro Washburn B16 banjo for aggravation |
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Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 7:12 pm
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As I've stated before, if some one is actually to loud I don't have a problem with telling them.
Just hope they will tell me when I get carried away and get to loud!! Yeah,, it happens!
spelling
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"Fessy" S/D 12, 8/6 Hilton Pedal, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"
[This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 23 April 2006 at 08:13 PM.] |
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Billy Webb
From:
Oroville, Cal. USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 11:15 pm
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| Hey Billy, Not all lead giutar players have a comlex like that,I have always loved steel more than any instrument, but being vary poor,I could never afford one. My dad traded a 1931 buick for my first guitar, and so I became a guitar player. But i could still hear that steel, consequently I laerned a lot of steel licks on guitar, and I learned to enhance a steel player or any other instrument thats taking a ride. After all we are thier to make each other sound as good as posible. Since I have retired I have made up my mind to only play with players that are as good as I am or better. Most good professional players dont neede an attitude. But Billy I know you are in the trenches,so heck, do like Buck always did, we are too loud boys turn it down to 10 Billy Webb, Movin on to Arkansas (getten closer) O, buy the way I play ped. steel also. |
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