differant sound

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i have always noticed that when i play i get a differant sound from my steel than what i hear on recordings even tho i'm playing the same note's can it be 1 my tone 2 my picking 3 my amp or what ?
i have tried differant amp settings , changing pressure on my bar , changed the way i pick (even changed picks ) but i still can't get the note clarity that i want any suggestions ?

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Yes, yes, and yes. Recordings sound different because they're processed, tweaked, and finely excuted by the very best players with the very best equipment. Most of us can sound like a pro sometimes, on rare occasions. Those who sound like a pro all the time are...you guessed it - "Pros"!

To tell exactly what your problem is, however, we have to know more, or hear your actual playing. You may not even have a problem, except in your own conception of what you're hearing. Find a way to post a clip of your playing!

Papa Joe Pollick · From: Swanton, Ohio

Calvin,are you talkin about the sound of a pro recording or your own recording? I find that what I record sounds different than what I hear as I'm recording.That's the reason why I record all my practice sessions.Just can't seem to hear what I'm doing when I'm playing.Sometimes it's better,then sometimes not.Oh well. PJ

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i have teacher not far away, so this was driving me nuts so a while back and i packed up everything i have, even down to the seat i was sitting on. took it to him and asked him to play my steel thru my amp sitting on my seat .it sounded like a differant instrument "beautiful" is the only way to describe it , when i questioned him about the differance in sound ( his vrs mine) i never did get a conclusive answer he only has 50 years of experence on me haha
when i play something like honky tonk angels or making beiieve i sound ok but for the past week i have been attempting farewell party and i just cant get the cotton picking thing to sound worth a hoot

i wish i knew how to post a sound clip but i don't have clue how to do that

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Calvin, it is hard to know if it might be something in your technique, but I will share with you my own experience that, without specifically focusing on it, after about 20 years of playing, one day my tone just sort of "kicked in" and all of a sudden people were talking about what a great tone I had. (Well, "acceptable" anyway.

) But seriously, I had just kept on playing and without specifically "trying" to improve my tone, it just kind of "arrived" one specific day. I noticed it myself on the day it came, and I sure don't know what I was doing different then vs. before. So maybe all you really need is just more time in the old packaseat. (Of course, your mileage may vary, so take it FWIW.)

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Yep, I've tried MORE REVERB, MORE SUSTAIN, MORE DELAY, wet reverb, wetter reverb, dry reverb, filters, Parametric equalization, 31 band equalization, compression, expansion, every Profex II selection possible, boost, tilt, and I still sound like a transistor radio with a 2 inch speaker.
I guess one of these days I gotta look into what my right hand is up to...

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i have tried to figure it out every which way i can think of , i have tried my best to play each note cleaner, harder, louder, softer, everything .
that radio comment comes pretty close to what i'm talking about haha

Willie Crisel · From: Charlotte, Tennessee, USA

my great steel playing friend told me last week at a lesson or 4 hours of picking his brain, he would play a lick then i would play it, first thing,i'm nervous in frount of him,so the first thing i do is over use the volume pedal,,a simple way to put it is,,if your right hand is moving or picking then there should be verry little movement of the volume pedal,,,when the right hand stops picking and you are sustaining a note use the pedal to bring up the volume to match the decay,,,second if you shake the bar insted of gently rolling it it sounds better,,and your right hand distance from the pickup plays a big part of the sound, also how far you wear your picks out on your fingers,, also pull the right elbow in and stick your thumb out further away from the other fingers,hit the strings at a sterighter angle,,then record and compare pickups,,,guitars,,,amps and amp settings,,,it just never ends,,hope some of this helps,,it does help me,,,

------------------
MId seventies Push Pull D10 8 and 4, Peavey LTD Peavey Session 400 Ibanez analog delay

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/1967.html
this is a link to what i am trying to play
but can't get to sound right
it's farewell party turnaround

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

thanks willie

maybe this could be part of it ,
i have a habit of resting my hand on the pick up, i have my picks bent to where if i lay my hand palm down the point of my picks are pointed almost straight up
i have also tried ajusting the angle of the pick at varying angles to get a cleaner note

Ron ! · Posted 22 Feb 2006 11:20 pm

Calvin.

Every steel player sounds different.The grass is always greener on the other side.You will always compare your steel playing with other players.Lloyd Green,Buddy Emmons,John Hughey..etc etc.

My advice to you is...concentrate on your technique,blocking,volumepedal etc etc.You will create your own sound that makes you unique.Do not try to copy players.Most of us do that.We all want to be like the big players,but that is the mistake that we all make.
By creating your own sound you make yourself unique.

Ron

------------------

Click here to E-mail us.

Karen Kaylee Records
KRS D-10 8x7, KRS SD10 4x6 EMMONS P/P S10 3x5 Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Ultra 15" Peavey All Tube 15"
Fender Twin Reverb Hilton Volumepedal Hilton Sustain

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

It's a long process for most players trying to learn. +30 years for me and I still find little things that have been right in front of me all these years. Stay with it. My motto is "Never Quit". You do fine.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

a tad long , sorry..

Calvin, it's called seat time, and as many have
stated above there is not a SET amount of time.

If you are setting down at your Steel and playing the tab to Farewell Party and are noticing that it doesn't quite sound the same..there are probably a few things going on at the same time..

1) are you well rehearsed

2) are you playing it exactly the same way everytime you sit and practice, I am referring to right hand, right foot, left hand etc...sitting in the exact same position

3) do you actually know the song or are you playing a tab memory ? is it automatic or are you concentrating on the tab positions ?

4) are the same picks on the same fingers each time you play ?

5) are you well rehearsed ?

Your comments are very valid and many times we read these comments from players like yourself but really don't have a reference from where you are coming from, as Jim mentions above. Stating that one has been playing a few years is really not a qualified reference..

For a musician to put emotions into music they are playing ( this is where the tone part comes from ) everything else before the actual playing has got to be in total autopilot..a great vocalist, they don't go out and perform and wonder if they know the words, the song or the arrangement..those 3 items are part of there BEING..and that is when they put the EMOTIONS into the tune..which is called the performance...

Anybody , well maybe not anybody, can sing Midnight Train to Georgia, but not like Gladys Knight...

Many times we refer to a great solo as "Man they nailed it"...and yeah, they did..

But the player is probably not thinking about the solo persay..he or she is probably more thinking about adding that something extra to something that to them is already old hat...

Peformance..execution of what you already know inside and out...

Buddy playing Danny Boy on the Black Album..now I don't know this from beans but I can speculate that while Buddy was playing and recording, he was not really thinking about Danny Boy..sure he was playing it no doubt..but in my mind he was way beyond Danny Boy, the song..Buddy connected his entire soul and spirit to his Steel and the result was Danny Boy...Danny Boy was an artifact of a man pulling out all the stops who basically clocked out from the real world and entered into a zone that set the reference for decades to follow.He could have done that with 3 blind mice..thank god he choose Danny Boy. Yes of course he had an Instrument capable of creating the music he was seeking,,but the Instrument is second..the musician is always first.

You pretty much cannot come forward with killer tone, which by the way mostly comes from within..without the factors discussed above.

Some folks are blessed and get to this place much sooner than others..

Our Instrument requires total consistency and daily practice of the exact same stuff..over and over and over just like every other Instrument...

A guy buys a guitar, goes home learns the 3 string D chord on the 2nd fret..it sort of comes out plunky..it doesn't sound quite right..but the notes are right...

He calls a friend who has been playing many years and asks..How long did it take you to learn to play the D chord..?

His friend might say.. ..3 years...

seat time, rehearse the exact same things daily..forget about trying to sound like Loyd Green..if you play the same exact thing everyday, 10 minutes a day for 30 days..I guarantee..there will be a positive change...

------------------
------------------
TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 24 February 2006 at 01:27 AM.]

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Calvin, where is your amp in relation to yourself when you play? If it's about two or three feet behind you when you play it will sound entirely different than if it's about eight feet in front of you. As that was probably the situation when you listened to your teacher. Get a long cable to run from your guitar to the amp and set the amp our in front of you and play again. You might notice your tone has inproved because where the amp is placed from your ears. If your tone still hasn't improved to your liking, this placement will allow you to tweek the amp settings to make your improvements. When you get the amp tone the way you like it you can return it to your normal location and not worry about how it sounds. You'll understand the tone is effected by your amp's location.

One other thing you can do to help yourself. Play without hiding or burying your tone. That is, play without using any sort of effects, except maybe a little reverb if you absolutely have to. By doing this, your playing technique becomes very apparent in your tone. You'll be able to hear how, if at all, your tone is lacking. It's easy to make the mistake of adding effects hoping to achieve the tone you are looking for. Effects add effect NOT tone. Technique IS the biggest part of your tone. Make sure your right hand technique is correct. There is some good advice by others in this thread regarding right hand technique. Bend your finger pick blades to an angle at which they hit the strings across the surface of the pick not the edge. Try picking the strings at different distances to the left of the pick-up. The closer to the pickup you pick the brighter the tone. If you pick a little to the left of the pickup your tone will be a little more resonant. Make sure your left hand cradles the bar and mutes the strings behind the bar. Some folks tightly grip the bar. This unneccessary and will actually stifle the tone as well as making bar intonation more difficult and tiring your hand. Relax your left hand. Let the bar sit on the strings while you guide it.

Hope these little hints help you find tonal nirvana.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

John Ummel · From: Arlington, WA.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

my amp is about 6-7 feet behind me and the only thing i am using is a Goodrich match box
what i am trying to get is that bell like clarity of the notes, mine sound muddled and sometime it almost sounds like bar chatter even when i have plenty of pressure on the bar. i just got up and have to go into town today when i get back i will try some of the things you have suggested

calvin

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

actually you may want to practice without an amp sometimes..listen to yourself picking the strings and the natural ustain of your Steel along with your left hand bar control..

you , we, need to clean it up right there...

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

moving away from the pick up seemed to help
and i will swear that this thing knows how much confidence i have in what i am playing cause the more confidence i have the better it seems to sound , so maybe its just getting very very comfortable with the tab i am playing

thanks guys

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Calvin, confidence has alot to do with your tone. As you gain confidence good technique will take over and free your creativity. Some players call this phenomenon "Getting in the Zone". Things really get to be fun at that point. Patience and practice are the keywords to getting there. Good luck to you and...

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i have been playing it over and over for the past few minutes and i think the phrasing is trickier than i first thought. it seemed fairly easy at first glance but the more i play it the more i can hear how critical the phrasing is on this
just being able to get the right strings and fret not cutting it on this one

[This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 23 February 2006 at 01:46 PM.]

Willie Crisel · From: Charlotte, Tennessee, USA

Calvin, Tony made some good points,i asked my friend why i couldn,t play something say a phrase or a string of licks perfect every time after 6 months, he said he worked on some songs or licks ect. for over 5 years,he laughed when i ask,,,he also said the reason he could play somethings note for note,is because he refused to give up,,i play or attempt to play 40 or so instrumentals,,out of these i play only 3 or 4 pretty well,,pick 1 or 2 songs and play them till you can't stand them,,,i am going back to only a handfull now,,and the rest is just playing in a small band,,,good luck keep us posted,,and also post some of your playing,,i was brave enough to do it,,got a couple of nice remarks,,the ones who didn't comment were just being too nice..

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I'll only add what I learned in decades of guitar playing.

Less is more.

Less notes. Less effects. Less flash. Make each note count. If it doesn't count, don't play it.

As far as guitar players, I hear the Danny Gattons, Johnny Hilands, etc., and while the had/have great chops, there's something missing. t's technique for its own sake.

Good technique is a means to an end - not the end itself.

Hence my moto - "No chops, great tone".

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i would settle for being able to play just this 1 reasonably well
for about a year i was putting in 4-8 hours a day at it but was getting kinda burned out, now i'm only playing about 1 1/2 hours a day. right now its the tone and phrasing thats the trouble , and like i said earlier the songs that i have some confidence in playing sound fairly well its almost as if the guitar can tell the ones i do from the ones i don't

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

richard burton · From: Britain

From experience, tone is not all in the hands.

Some steel guitars are toneless from the word go, and virtually impossible to get a good sound from.

I'm talking about all brands of steel, from all eras, past and present.

Sometimes you can drop on a good one, where the grain of the wood, the density of the wood etc is just right, but equally it is just as easy, if not easier, to drop on a bad one.

Calvin, it's just possible that you've got a wrong'un, probably coupled with a humbucking pickup, a volume pedal that shuts off to absolute silence, and maybe grooves in the changer fingers, in other words, a recipe for disaster.

Forum Index > Steel Players	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic