more of how is it possable

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

as a beginer , what makes it so hard to undersrtand is that there seems to be no logic as to how the strings are layed out for example : on a keyboard the note's are simple if you can manage to find the A key the rest follow a natural order A,B,C,D,E,F,G then just repeat over and over it really just becomes a matter of target pratice after that. but on the steel i can't for the life of me keep up with what note i'm playing or where it at . it seems like a jumble of random notes ../ before you start hollering at me i know its not and many of you understand why and how its done but for someone like me thats trying to get a handle on it , it can and is mind boogling

just sign me still confused

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I thought the exact same thing when I started, so being self-taught I just honed in on the 4 strings that make sense together: 3, 4, 5, 6. I knew that was an open E chord, with an E and B surrounded by two G#'s. And on up the frets, logic dictated that there was a G chord on the third fret, A chord on the 5th and so on. I spent a bit of time playing those 4 strings and figuring out what pedals and levers applied to these strings. A+B pedals down gave me a C chord on the 3rd fret, which led me to the logic that a D chord was on the 5th fret, etc. From there I slowly started to incorporate the other strings, and now it all makes sense to me. In fact, it now amazes me that somebody actually figured out the best way to lay out this tuning.

At first the other strings mesmerized me, and I was mystified as to what purpose they had. Now I don't know how I'd play without the high F# or the 9th string D.

It will come to you eventually as well. For me the 3, 4, 5, 6 helped get the ball rolling. Knowing a bit of music theory does help, however. I was 15 years a musician before I sat down at my first steel, which was a godsend in figuring out chords and scales.

[This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 09 November 2005 at 10:55 AM.]

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

The pedal guitar is very complicated to visualize, as we all know. You can think of a piano as a repetative pattern of 12 notes,in succession.

The pedal guitar is in fact a 3-dimensional matrix of notes across and notes in succession (2-dimensions) with the addition of note patterns from the pedals and knee levers, the 3rd dimension. Something to ponder, the next time you are thinking of the meaning of the universe or tequila.....

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

That's one reason (among many) I went with an old Fender in B6 tuning - the 4 bottom strings are an octave above the 4 top, no confusing chromatic strings, and a wider tonal range - low notes you can't get on an E9. Works for what I do, and very similar to dobro, which I've played for many years, where the strings are in 3 low/3 high tuned an octave apart.

I have one set up in E9 and I can't find much at all without tab in front of me. the B6 I can noodle my way around and make some sense of.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

The E9th tuning is the result of long experimentation and developement by some serious musical thinkers...
Although it looks pretty complex and mysterious, it's actually extremely logical from the standpoint of being able to play a whole lot of stuff within the limitations that a finite amount of pedals and strings give.

The tuning should really unlock for you starting with the study of the basic four "grips" or chord stacks that apply to most of the pedal combinations. (strings 10,8,6,- 8,6,5- 6,5,4- and 5,4,3) You can then add the use of the "chromatics" and string 7 and 9 over time...

Where a piano beginner usually starts learning to translate note names from paper to the linear pattern of keyboard notes, for a beginner to E9 steel I think it's much easier to learn chord postions, and start applying that to song structure.

For instance, the above string grips will yield the following chords at the third fret:
G with no pedals or levers
Gsus4 with just the "B" pedal
C with the "A & B" pedals
Em with just the "A" pedal
Emajor with the "A" pedal and lever raising 4th and 8th strings a half tone
Bm with just the lever lowering 4th and 8th strings a half tone
D6 (mostly) with the same lever(add 7th string for full D6 chord)
D7 (again mostly) with pedal "B" and lever lowering 4th and 8th strings, again add string 7 for the full chord
C augmented with "A & B" pedals and the lever raising the 4th and 8th strings
G#mb5 (used for G#diminished)with just lever raising strings 4 and 8 a half tone

A little practice moving these around the fretboard gives enough chords to play nearly any song. Applying the same knowledge ones needs to make chords on a piano keyboard to scale notes found at and around the third fret will explain where all these chords come from, and throw light on the real genius of the E9 tuning.
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 10 November 2005 at 11:07 AM.]

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

In a recent thread Ricky Davis posted a chart that shows each string and exactly how it relates to the root. I have been looking for the thread but no luck so far, I hope Ricky might read this and post it again. If not I'll try to post something like it. After you look at it you'll wonder why you needed it in the first place, it's so simple.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Seriously. I think Chris took the roight approach. When beginners come to me for assistance, I take the exact same approach to help them get started.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Can't see the forest 'cause it's full of all those &^%$# trees, I know what you're going thru.

Follow what both Chris and Mark have said. Try following an easy tune (one where you know its chord progression, like a C, F, & G for the I, IV, V) picking strings 3,4, 5 only. Then do the same tune with 4,5,6 only, then 5,6,8, then 6,8,10.

Next do it all over with the A&B down.

Pretty soon you'll find the pattern and relationship.

Assuming you have the "Emmons" setup, then experiment with A and LKL (at the same time), then B and LKR (at the same time).

Just my $0.02.

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 11 November 2005 at 12:59 PM.]

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

thanks fellas , i know you have all found a way thu the confusion . watching some of you play makes it look like childs play till someone like me sits down and try s to do it ...as always thanks for your input

calvin

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