Dumb Studio call!!

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Dumb ME-.. NOT the caller...He got my number from Ithaca Guitar Works.. The owner Chris turns all steel calls over to me.. He gets several a year, because he's well connected in the local scene, and people looking for something special or out of the ordinary for a session ask him first... { Thanks Chris!]..

Anyway, after some talking awhile, I tell the caller I need to get payed properly for the session.. Now, this is a FIVE song call mind you!... He says absolutely, $50 each.. done deal...

He sends me charts, words and a CD... I get several hours shed time before the Sat. date...

Sat Morning I meet him ,we ride to the down town studio.. Its a 3 flight walk into what can best be described as a great place for a murder...

anyway, I do 5 songs, hate EVERTHING I played, [they LOVED it!!!??]... and then trying to be a nice guy, I offer to do a sixth song for free,as it SCREAMED for some west coast style steel... They are thrilled and I do it...no problem..

So now its 6 hours later and I am in the guys car driving back to the meeting point where I left my car, and the guys thanks me, hands me my money... It looks like a pretty small roll...hmm, 2 20's a 5 and 5 singles... .... $50.....I am sitting there thinking "where's my $250"??.. this was suppossed to be $50 each song.... As my mind started to analyze the problem, it became painfully clear we never really discussed an EXACT price... It became obvious to me that when I told the guy I need to get paid properly, and he said "$50 each", in his mind he was thinking $50 a SESSION... In my mind it was $50 a SONG..,,, Some studio dates I do are by the song and some are by the session..

I kept my mouth shut but was PO'd!!.. mostly at myself of course... This is the LAST time I will do anything so dumb as to take ANYTHING for granted..

Every single time I entrust my fee to the whim of the performer that calls, I get something like this..

From this day on , even if I seem like a money grubbing, mercenary,"in it for the bread" type of player, I will MAKE SURE , all fees are WELL understood.... Yeah I guess I'll still take a $50 call, but its one song and out...

my fault of course, and yes it was a misunderstanding,but I feel a little creepy to think the guy hiring me thinks I'm such a "cheap date" to go play all afternoon on 6 songs for $50...I hope I'm not portraying an evil money monger side of me here, but wow, I feel cheap and used kinda...

Next call, within the first 30 seconds I'll interject with.. "Oh by the, way how much does this session pay" "Is that per song or for the entire session?... etc...sorry for the minor rant, but man, I HATE misunderstandings when they bite me in the wallet

...BTW,, is my attitude wrong in this matter? bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 16 October 2005 at 01:27 PM.]

JW Day · From: Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA

Bob;
I had the same thing happen on a wedding gig one time. We thought and still think that we had made it clear that it was 100 a man for the 2 hr. Sat. evening reception, didn't work out that way though. Next time there was a signed contract. This way there isn't any come-backs.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Jim, you are correct of course, but this is "cow country" around here... pretty dead musically and I pretty much have to take what I can get..,

I generally like get $100 a session, but I do accept less at times, and if it came to taking less money, or making nothing , usually I will work cheaper. NOT this cheap however!!..

You'd be surprised how many calls I get to go in the studio for free, even from people I don't know... I would NEVER ask a musician to play for free. but an awful lot of people do. Unfortunately, In my area, LOTS of pretty good musicians play free or don't play at all. Ithaca...college town....bob

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Last month I turned down a call that "paid $150" because I was already booked. I handed the gig off to a friend of mine, who was anxious for the work.
You can imagine how happy he was with me when he arrived at the gig to find the whole band was being paid $150 !!
Clarity is elusive sometimes.
-John

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Bob, I will bet that were the first and only musician to ever get one inserted like that.

I have played a few road engagements where I ended up with less then 1/4 of what was supposed to be paid.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Larry Robbins · From: Fort Edward, New York

Wow Bob,
....... again! Did you at least get kissed?
It's tough up here in cow country aint it?
Same thing in my part of NYS! Sometimes I
think they set out to mess with me just to save a buck and other times I think they just dont know any better! I dont like contracts cause they leave a paper trail and I like to do this stuff on a "cash basis" if you know what I mean.

Thats kind of why I e-mailed you recently about charging as a utility player.In this neck of the woods its a tough call. I found I have to make it perfectly clear what I need to get right off the bat.If I lose a bit of work its better than missing out on a chance to make good money on another gig,just because "so and so" told them that I worked real cheap!...Somedays chicken, somedays feathers....somedays chicken....!
just chalk it up to expierence and set them straight from the start next time!
Happy Trails

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

You should have counted the money in front of him, said..."IS THIS IT???", and then added "Please, don't call me anymore, I thought it was $50 a song, not $50 a session". Instead, you quietly accepted what he gave you. As far as he's concerned, you were a happy camper.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Interesting how misunderstandings happen----in their favor.

Sounds like he new exactly what he was doing. CYA.

[This message was edited by James Morehead on 17 October 2005 at 06:56 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Thanks guys.. I don't feel like such a fool now!..
Donny you are right, thats probably what I SHOULD have done,but again, I really didn't know whose fault it was.. When the the guy said $50 each I ASSUMED he was talking each song..
I have GOT to learn to ASSUME NOTHING!..btw, he DID use the word each. But again , maybe he just meant each session. I dunno..
Maybe THATS why they just kept takes with mistakes, klinkers, clams all over them.. so they could get steel for ALL the tunes in one session...

I'll say this...They got about what they paid for. My playing was VERY un impressive.
Too many songs jammed down my throat all at once, and they were keeping stuff that should have been tossed overboard, calling it great. blech... They did not get my best unfortunately...

They really seemed like nice guys, not the type to "put one over".. so I must give them the benefit of the doubt and just say it was my fault for not being CRYSTAL clear on fees.. I sure learned a lesson.. I HAVE been to this school before, THIS time however the lesson WILL stick.. bob

John Lacey · From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada

I would have confronted him with the misunderstanding diplomatically but firmly. It gives him the impetus to go back to his crew and come up with at least close to what you deserve. Perhaps he wasn't aware of the going rate for players around your area and just lowballed a figure out of his head. Most decent guys would go back and come up with some more bucks.

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

I feel the error starts with the word "each."
It should have been followed by the word "song" then there would have been no misunderstanding. And you should have had a contract to verify your deal.
Don

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Such are the reasons why, regardless of who wins and who looses, the lawyers always get paid...

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Bob, it's a misunderstanding..equal fault on both sides.

the good news is you did get paid..and he will probably call you again..

put it this way..
I DID NOT get a call to do even a $50 session..

you did

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 17 October 2005 at 06:31 AM.]

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

Bob thats sucks, that why I just charge for the session. One tune or ten tunes doesn`t matter to me. They just pay for the block of time I`m there. That seems to limit the confusion

Hook

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www.HookMoore.com

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

hook.. the only problem with that is you could get The same price for a 1 hour date or a 7 hour date... My fees have ben WAY up and down.. NO real pattern.. I need to deal with that and set a minimum of some kind... I DON'T expect to make $200 for a 1/2 hour session, but also hate to see $50 for 6 hours... there has to be some sort of standard I think... I'll figure something out... I hope!

bob

BobG · From: Holmdel, NJ

quote:
and then trying to be a nice guy, I offer to do a sixth song for free,as it SCREAMED for some west coast style steel... They are thrilled and I do it...no problem..

It seems to me if they were "thrilled" by your generous offer to play the sixth song for "free" they were aware of the $50 per song agreement from the beginning.

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Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

richard burton · From: Britain

Maybe the guy that payed you trousered the $200.
His colleagues may be under the impression that you received $250.

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

Bob, I kinda think of it as any other gig. The pay is for packing all my gear around. If I haul my gear in for a one hour gig they still gotta pay a minimum fee ( which is a 3 hour minimum block of time). I don`t try or even want to make it hard on anyone or break their bank but there certainly are lots of folks that will take advantage of you. I`m bad to just let it go without much fuss, just as you did in this case, so I set my "rate per block of time per session" in advance. Thats just my way of keeping confusion to a minimum and everyone leaving happy.

Hook

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www.HookMoore.com

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Bob,

Can't add really much more to what's been said, BUT, I still would call those guys back up and say:

"Look, there's been a bit of a misunderstanding concerning what my fees
were for our session. My fee was $50 a song.
Not $50 for 6 hours of work. People flipping burgers at Mc'D's get almost that much."

What have ya got to lose? Either they cough up the balance or they don't. At the least, they'll know you're not just any old fool who's glad to move mounds of equipment around and set it up and play their crummy songs - all for 50 bucks.

Gheez, Bobb-oh. Call em' back. I would.

JMSO.

Lynn Owsley · From: Hendersonville, Tennessee

Bob, you might want to refer to AFM scales for your area...Time blocks for masters,sometime demos for a set amount per song,but at no time take a CD home to learn the material prior to the session, with out rehersal fee,paid by the hour.
All sessions should include cartage for the steel guitarist,and extra for packing an amp.
All work of this kind is negotiable in places which are not "too union",but the union session also includes a pension fund contribution which grows more important as you grow older.
I also agree with Donnie, at no time to simply accept the offered amount with out asking questions and explaining your position,and possible clearing away this problem for future work....
Now what if this person likes what you did and refers you to others wanting a days work and a free rehersal...for 50bucks (WOW!!! Now I can finally have that surgery I been needing) you gonna be busy...
Good Luck....

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

This 'per song' pay-scale is something that has reared its head more and more in recent years. The rate under Musicians' Union auspices in the UK will vary according to the type of work, but there's a maximum of twenty minutes of recorded music per three hour session. That could be any number of songs, or a piece of music of that duration.

I did a lot of studio work back in the UK for many years and, if I was overdubbing existing tracks, the same rule applied. In the unlikely event that more than 20' of music was covered within three hours, then a 'half session' (about two thirds) was payable. In all cases there is a cartage fee payable (or 'porterage', as it's called back in the Old Country) which varies depending on what you've been asked to bring to the date.

The problem comes when we move into the gray area of home-recording and away from the world of master sessions - I did my share of that, too, but was mindful of being without the protection (???

) of the Union, and learned the hard way to spell things out pretty clearly!

Bob, I agree with Chip's post - if you call them back and clear the air, you may get a result; more important, I think you'll feel better about the whole experience if you let them know how you feel.

Roger R.

Luke Morell · From: Ramsey Illinois, USA Hometown of Tex Williams

I did some recording for a guy one time and didn't even get a free c.d. or much of a thank you.

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

I recieved a call one time from a very popular Polka musician ,band leader who wanted me to produce a Country session for a Girl he knew.I went over the material and it was all traditional classic stuff AKA Lorreta and Patsy so I made the charts out for a smooth run.. She had ten classics and one original she wanted for an album. So I agreed and booked 10 hours studio time and hired 5 great musicians who knew their way around the studio. Then I had the cash up front for the studio time and agreed to get the rest after the mix.The studio time was 35 an hour and 25 Engineer an hour time (the 70's).The musicians agreed to 200.00 for the actual 4 1/2 hours of their time. So that package was 1600.00 plus my fee determined after the total input time. I had mentioned 2500-3000 total to the Polka king and he agreed,when the session was done and mixed the Lady sounded great (well as good as she was ever gonna be )and the polka king loved it to. I had the mixed product and agreed to turn it over the following monday at his office thus pick-up balance owed.Well it seems mr. Polka king was conviently among the missing and his secretary gave me a company check and seeing this guy had such a great business and rep I accepted it. I then immediately deposited into my account and wrote checks to the 5 musicians. Mine did not bounce but guess whose did? I tried every legal logical way to get amount owed but the polka king went bankrupt and avoided public places like he had the plague.I found out later he recieved over 6000.00 up front from the lady.I keep looking at Polka shows line-ups hoping but after 30 years somebody else probably got to him first.

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Smiley 23-9 Crank&pull&push pro model Deluxe with auto voice tuner and string changer.500ft.roll.

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