E66 comment for Ron Carpenter

Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

RON, I didn't want to reply for Buddy Emmons on your post,regarding the E66 pickups,but I do have a comment. A lot of people presume that the 12-string E66 sounds the same as the 10-string E66; NOT TRUE! I have had both on different brands of steels and have found the 12-string pickup to be a richer,fuller sounding pickup than the 10-string version. So much so,in fact, that I recently built a 10-string non-pedal steel with a 12-string E66 pickup and wow what a tone! On the 12,the magnetic field is slightly stronger and it has more wire,even though it does not have a greater number of windings. This is due to the increased length of the coil. I am not challenging the folks at CARTER. Their ears are just as good as mine! I just wanted you to be aware of the difference in the two pickups.
~~W.C.~~

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

I agree Wayne, and there are many reasons for this. Not all of them are in the pickup it's self.
Yep, correct! (in my humble opinion)
Bobbe

Alan Kendall · From: Maury County Tennessee

The 12 string e-66 is actually 19.5 ohms, as oppossed to 17.5 for the 10 string version,so maybe they do wind the 12 string a little hotter?

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

What does "Hotter" mean? I've never figered out what that meant, "Hotter"?
Temporature of the wire when winding? Size of the wire? Amount of wire in relation to number of winds? The amount of electrical energy the pickup will take before it explodes? "Hotter" huh?
Does it have anything to do with the power in the magnetic field? Size of magnets? Configuration of magnets?
I've asked Bill Lawrence and George Lewis what "Hotter" meant, they don't know either. Is the Bigsby pickup "Hotter" with 2000 olms of 38 guage wire or is the Bill Lawrence pickup "Hotter" with 38.000 olms of #44 wire?????????????? What is this term "Hotter"??????

I think it's like a Mullen Push Pull.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

"Hotter", I'd assume, merely signifies "more output". However, more output is generated not only by more turns of wire, but also by the size, shape, and composition of the coil itself, as well as by the size, shape, and composition of the magnets, too. Then, there's "voodoo" and "pixie-dust", and probably some black magic involved, as well.

When dealing with pickups, any numbers (inductance, DC resistance, etc.) are only meaningful when comparing the same brand, model, and size of pickup. In the end, it's how it sounds that's important...not what it is.

Alan Kendall · From: Maury County Tennessee

Oh silly me !!! What I meant was......As the 12 string E-66 is 19.5 ohms and the 10 string E-66 is 17.5 0hms, that might account for Wayne hearing a "Richer fuller sound" from the 12 string E-66. What I meant by "hotter" was maybe they put more wire, or different wire on the 12 string to increase the ohm's.But your right Mr Seymour, it was a totally bloody stupid thing to say, and I'll never use that word again in refference to pickups.As you can tell I have really no clue about the intricacies of pickup design or build,I just know whether they sound good to me or not. If i've messed up again by using the words "wire" or "ohms"please feel free to correct me as I am a very willing student.
Disclaimer-This thread is in no way meant to elevate any one's blood pressure.
I think it's a Plonker Pull Pull

Charles Dempsey · From: Shongaloo, LA

Hotter? Hmmm. It never occurred to me to wonder.

The way the term is used on the pup boards it seems that a hot pickup has more output than a non-hot one. I don't know why this is useful. If I had output problems I'd turn up the pre, or get a bigger amp.

The so-called "hot" pickups I've played (Seymour Hot Rails, Invader etc") sounded harsh, had inferior dynamics, and generally left a lot to be desired tone wise.

C2 (strongly prefers cool Wink

[This message was edited by Charles Dempsey on 23 June 2005 at 11:27 AM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

True, more wire will add more output, but it also reduces the high frequencies in relation to the lows. All other things being equal, a 20k pickup will be louder and bassier than a 16k pickup. All this comes into play especially if you have your any of your tone controls "maxed out". Some players I see have their bass controls set at "10", and this signifies they may want more bass than their pickup/amp combination can provide. In this case, I'd advise them to go for a hotter (more turns, more DC resistance) pickup. Buying a new pickup to get more highs when you're only running your amps treble control at "4" makes no sense at all. Explore all your amps capabilities before buying a new pickup.

Your sound is provided by a whole system (guitar, strings, playing technique, pickup, volume pedal, cords, effects, amp, and speaker) called the "sound-chain" that's all inter-related. What, specifically, you're trying to accomplish sound-wise determines exactly where you should be making changes.

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I like the XR-16 pick ups on my D-10 Carter and S-10D Carter. Is there a standard wound for these pick ups if you just order them for your guitar. I'm not sure if there 16.5, 17.5 or whatever. I just like the sound. My question here is actually: Are the same pick ups wound the same unless you place a special order? Standard XR-16's - what are they wound to? What about the PF-1's, E-66's ,etc. This is a very good topic as I've talked to several players over the years that were not sure if there p/u's were 17.5, 18.5,20.5,etc.

Ron Carpenter · From: Columbus, Ohio

Guys,

I appreciate the advice... and I know tone is a subjective thing. It (the pickup)can be hotter (more output) and if you don't like the tone, then what do you have?

All I know for sure is my new guitar sounds just like the ones I heard the Texas boys playing in Dallas a few years back. They sounded great, playing western swing in that venue.

But with my touch and the 12-1 the only way it fills a space in the mix is to be too loud.

One of the retired raod players heard me play at our Ohio Steel Guitar Association show. I played a swing and jazz set on my Carter D-10. Tommy said it had the most remarkable tone. He could hear the chords I played, but still hear each individual note in the chords. That clarity is not happening on the combination right now. Carter is sending an E-66x12. I know it won't sound the way they prefer, from the feedback on the forum, I'm hopeful I'll be smiling again by Monday. Hey, a good songwriter could probably write a hit with that last line.

Thanks guys, take care

Ron C

Ron Carpenter · From: Columbus, Ohio

Danny,

One night I played my D-10 on a stage so dark I couldn't see the pointer on my amp knobs. So, I just tweeked it till it sounded good to me.

When I tore down that night I notice the Stereo Steel was set flat on presene,treble, mid, and bass. and +3db on warmth. MY point is that the signal path didn't need a lot enhancement. The guitar/pickup combination worked well together. The trouble with most amps is that you can't boost highs, mids, lows without coloring the adjacent tonal response. For me, when I'm all over the map on those knobs, it just means the combination isn't working.

What do you think?

Ron

George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

i had one on my guitar since i had it built..i am so so glad i did...i love it!

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Whitney Single 12 8FL & 5 KN,keyless, dual changers Extended C6th, Webb Amp, Line6 PodXT, Goodrich Curly Chalker Volume Pedal, Match Bro, BJS Bar..I was keyless....when keyless wasn't cool....

Chick Donner · From: North Ridgeville, OH USA

Ron, I've used an E66 12 on the rosewood PP I;e got. Goos and warm sound.

Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

Re: to BOBBE's "Hotter". "Hotter" simply means that the pickup cover is blonde.

~~W.C.~~

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