just a few comments

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

first i want to say THANK YOU to those here that gave me help so free and willingly .. i have given up on the steel i have already sold it . just could not seem to get it.
during the past year and 1/2 i read many of your comments on the forum about how the steel wasn't well known or reconized. you said that there are far to few players...here is why i think that is so true .not everyone here, but far too many none the less seem unwilling to teach and those that do want $50.00 an hour to do so or you just have such huge egos that you don't want to fool with "us rookies" so it would seem that you only have yourselves to blame for so few steel players . and before you say well there are plenty of books , tapes or whatever to teach ,,we all know that nothing takes the place of a person to help get thru the rough spots. you must understand that many and i do mean a lot of beginers lack the money to pay for your help but i can tell you this for every hour you spend helping that rookie you will be paid with many years of freindship and undying gratitude...this steel that we all love is just to hard to let the rookies go it alone for if you do so, the only steel guitars our grandchildern will see will be in a museum
again thanks to those that tried to help

calvin

[This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 01 November 2004 at 01:11 PM.]

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:20 PM.]

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

That's close enough to expressing my reaction to this. I have plenty to give and I give it readily. Which is hardly worth mentioning because I'm hardly unique. There is a wealth of resources for anyone with the desire, the will and the cleverness to utilize them.
I you chose to give it up, fine. If you discover that it's just not for you, fine. It makes no sense to assume that everyone can or should be cut out for something. But this is 100% something that was ventured by Mr. Walley and something that was quit by Mr. Walley. Period. Nobody else bears any burden here. Nobody failed him. And plenty of people tried to help him.
This ticks me off.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Calvin, so sorry to learn that you've decided to throw in the towell. That's a shame.
At least you've elected to get on with your life and perhaps that was a wise decision for you. Some of us were too dumb or too addicted to make such a positive change in plans during our earlier lives.

Many of us have spent decades trying to learn and better understand this machine.
We've spent thousands of dollars on upgrades,
learning materials, practice sessions, etc., in order to pursue our desire to master this steel guitar thing. No one said it was going to be easy. THere are no guarantees.

WHen I learned to play, there were no real steel guitarists in this region. We played in a class environment; twenty or so kids, some well behaved; some not; all in a circle trying to play as a single unit. They called it orchestra practice.

The songs weren't even nursery rhymes (sp?)
but we had to learn to play them. WHY?

There was no steel guitar music even printed, or circulated in quantities; let alone TAB, CD's, video instructional courses or whatever.

Back then, the only musicians that taught steel guitar in Portland were mostly alcoholics and seldom showed up for the lesson. Others were experts in Oboe, triangle, or perhaps harp and taught steel guitar on the side.

WHY, should anyone teaching a valuable course, that has taken them years to master, do it for FREE? Lawyers, dentists, doctors, auto mechanics, surely don't. Look what your paying for gasoline..........

I've had six students last year and each dropped out after about lesson 2 or 3, as they felt they were not progressing as rapidly as they felt they should. Most likely, I'm not a qualified teacher. Most admittedly, did not have time to practice from one week to the next. Most expected to be playing in a band within about 60-90 days.
Most purchased their guitar/amp/bar, picks, without any advise or recommendations of a more knowledgeable musician.

A teacher can TEACH but a student has to have a burning desire to learn; must be committed and have the stamina to practice, practice, practice. Without the students own dedication to bring it all together, no teacher at any price can make it happen.

You mention many students lack the money to pay for a teacher. Do you really believe that we, that have been playing for years, got our instruction for FREE? I think not.

I had to learn from 78 rpm records and a small Webcore record player. No hands on where I was at.

Calvin, I do understand your disappointment but I also believe you're unfairly laying a lot of blame on those of us players that have been at it for years instead of accepting "a failure" at your own feet. This is not meant as a put down but why are we responsible for your decision to drop out. I've been playing sixty one years and still have to dig out things for which I can find no easy source from which to learn it accurately. I've got a 90 minute cassette full of "hot licks" or "runs" that I've heard and desperately want to learn but cannot for the life of me, figure out how to do them. Someday, maybe?

Yes, perhaps you did the right thing by dropping out. Most likely the steel guitar was just not for you......but then again, you just might later learn, that the bug has bitten you quite hard, and you just might find yourself jumping right back in it again.

Lot's of current players have quit playing for years, only to get back into it. This has caused a lot of required, re-learning of all that had been forgotten during the interum.

You're not alone. I think one day soon, you'll likely find yourself hurting to get back to your studies, possibly with a different more positive attitude, and then,
you'll be on your way. Whatever you might do, have a happy life. Learning to play the steel guitar can be one of the most frustrating experiences one might encounter; and, also one of the most rewarding.

Mike Scaggs · From: Nashville, TN

Calvin

Here's my take, if you really wanted to play bad enough in the first place you would do nothing but sit behind that steel and figure out what you could. I was 13 years old and took an old 12 string guitar, pulled off the 6 strings, tuned in in an e chord and tried to play along with Charlie Pride records. I did not have anyone show me anything. In fact, I did'nt even know a steel player! As time went on I did meet some life long friends who helped me find my way. I listened to tons of steel recordings and did buy some books and tapes.

You will find if you change you whole approch to learning and be patient with the steel you might just surprise yourself in the end.

When I lived in Nashville I did meet a few steel players with pretty big egos, guess what, just because they could play did mean they got the gig! You pros know what I mean.

Be a nice guy, make friends, and buy another steel and start up again. We need more players at all levels to keep our dreams alive.

Come to Sacramento and I will give you all the free lessons you can stand..

Mike Scaggs

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Calvin, as a 1 year student of steel(SOS), Ic an sympathise on the difficulty, but the snobbery has not been my experience. I have a great teacher at Scotties(Don E. Curtis)who by the way is charging WAY less than $50/hr, and most of my lessons have been closer to 2 hrs. than 1. I have a friend and great player(Dave Alley) who has spent hrs at my house trying to show me stuff. I also have 3 picks and a bar,Winnie's book, and decent equipment. But most of my learning comes from playing along with the CD's, just like I did 44 yrs. ago on guitar, no pain, no gain! Good luck, JP

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

If a guy that can play volunteers his time for nothing to help teach someone enough times, only to see them get close, then give up... well, then...
He'll probably figure it's been a waste of his time too, and next time he'll charge $50 a lesson.

-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Calvin. I have paid the equivelent of
a pickers fee for a gig per hour for a lesson,
and thought it well worth it.

Why?

Because this player is a master, and I wouldn't expect him to
spend an hour on stage playing for less than this.

GOOD teaching is harder than playing your gig.
And I got a TON of stuff from this 2 hour session.

Who was this teacher...
Doug Jernigan, a great teacher, a true master steel player,
and a nice guy.
I will never regret for a minute what Doug charged,
because it was worth ever cent.

I also have a buddy near here with 30 years of steeling,
he helped me out several times on technique and basic issues,
lent me TAB and cassettes,
and he never even thought about charging me a cent. He usually has a cup of coffee and such layed out when I come buy.

Thgere's buddy Crowbear, 4 hours away, and less time under his belt, but a fine player,
with tons of steel info and TAB and practical help he has given me.
Never asked for a cent.

So, yeah there are some who charge,
and 99% of the time you are getting a full time working pro helping you,
and it is pretty focused.
And will continue to pay off for a long time, not a week or so.

And more who are just happy to help a newbie get uo and running.

But ya know... the MAJORITY of what I have accomplished was
from MY hard work and digging and asking questions on this forum. And just woodshedding a LOT.

So if you threw in the towel... c'est la vie,
maybe you just weren't meant to be a steeler.
So people don't have the ear intonation for it.
Some don't have the burninf drive to do it.

I may not, but I keep kickin at it, and it gets better.
I also have gotten gigs and calls back, so something is working.

I liken it to being a violin player. After 15 years they say your now a qualified beginner, time to learn to play.

So I am not worried that in 1.5 years I am not chording like Big E, or pick blocking like Joe Wright.
30 years of dobro is definitly not PSG time, though ir did help initially.
I will eventualy get to my level wherever that maybe.

A long roow to hoe, but you do get to the end and turn around eventually.
At some point you also get to harvest.

I am sorry it didn't work for you.
c'est la vie, encore.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 02 November 2004 at 11:57 PM.]

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Boy, there's not much to add to you'all's comments. I'm only in my 50's now and been working on this PSG jones since my teens. Almost gettin' sorta good at it and I doubt that more than 1 in 100 of us ever had anything like this forum to turn to, not to mention a real teacher to help. If you really want it, you can't stop it. If you stop it, you can't really want it.
Best of luck in your true calling Calvin, wherever you may find it. Whatever you do, wherever you are happy, sooner or later you've got to own your own life, nobody else can do that for you.

dg

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Sound Man to the Stars
Pedal Steel Picker with what's left . . .
www.pdxaudio.com/dg.html

Rick Alexander · From: Florida, USA, R.I.P.

You know, to play steel (or any instrument for that matter) you have to keep at it and never give up NO MATTER WHAT. You have to put it first above all your other activities. Persistance and work it are way more important than "talent". If you give up on it, that's totally your call and any blame is non-assignable.
It's not easy to play steel guitar. If it were, everybody would be doing it!

A lot of the licks, riffs, harmonies, arpeggios etc I can play came from singing a lick or playing it on reg guitar and finding it on the steel. The idea is to get to where you can play whatever you think up or hear. There's no real "point of arrival", you just keep trying to get better at it. I have a lot of help doing this - all from the best darn teacher in the whole world - a fella by the name of Rick Alexander ! That dude has spent countless hours going over and over stuff with me, helping me work out out and execute increasingly difficult passages, and helping me to understand the theory involved etc. etc. etc. In fact, I can state unequivocally that I owe most everything I achieve to Rick Alexander.

Okay, okay - and Herb and Cindy and Jerry and Bobby and Dewitt, and even Arlen . . . .

I don't give lessons per se, but if a bro steeler asked me nicely I would gladly show and tell what I know. Stop by - and for starters, I'll teach you how to play SLEEPWALK

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Rick Alexander
57 Fender Stringmaster T8, 57 Fender Champ, 59 Valco D8, 47 National New Yorker . .

John Rickard · From: Phoenix (It's A Dry Heave) AZ

Everyone learns at a different pace. I took about 3 months of lessons/jams and took off on my own from there. It's sad when someone gives up too quickly on the steel but it takes time (a lifetime) to play a musical instrument proficiently. Maybe thats why Guitar Center has sold more of these [url=http://www.hardheadz.cwc.net/dj'ing%20from%20above.JPG]http://www.hardheadz.cwc.net/dj'ing%20from%20above.JPG[/url]
than guitars in the past 2 years.

JR

[This message was edited by John Rickard on 01 November 2004 at 05:57 PM.]

Savell · From: Slocomb, AL

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[This message was edited by Savell on 31 May 2005 at 01:24 PM.]

Bob Wood · From: Madera, California, USA

Double-ditto!

Bob

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

how common it is to blame someone else rather than oneself
nobody's fault.............................but mine
Steelin' would be nowhere if it had'nt been for all those who learnt the hard way back in the days when there was no forum, no tabs, no videos & a very limited steel family
i'm light years away from a real steeler i could take lesson from. Well that don't keep me from keepin'on.
this instrument is just too far out man !
Good Luck to ya' Calvin
you might even make it back
ps: john steel has an interesting point

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 November 2004 at 12:23 AM.]

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Calvin... I think that your use of the LOWERCASE letter "i" is a clue to why you gave up...Low self esteem..
You just aren't motivated enough..If you don't think you're important or unique, then it's quite probable that you won't be..

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Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Kenny Drake · From: Leesburg, Virginia, USA

Calvin, I'm wondering at what point you would consider yourself "getting it". If that means no longer in need of practice and you've reached a point when you no longer need to "learn", then you've missed the point entirely and you will certainly never "get it". Ask anyone of the studio monsters in this forum if they've stoppped progressing, or no longer in need of practive. There is no magic pill. Steel guitar is a life-long journey but you must have the passion for it and be dedicated to it like any other musical instrument. Otherwise you would be wasting your time. I hope you reconsider. Also, remember that if this came easy, EVERYONE could do it!

Good Luck!

Chris Schlotzhauer · From: Colleyville, Tx. USA

Calvin, I've been hacking away at this infernal machine for 20+ years. I still don't gt it, at least to my satisfaction. I started out as a singer/guitar player with a steel player in my band, who was very good. I loved the sound, but never had ay thoughts of playing one. One day, I was at C&S Music in Fort Worth and saw a new LDG and I bought it for $800 (yes, I'm still kicking myself). I bought Winnie's book that day also. It sat in my bedroom for years, but I would sit down and noodle every day. Gary Carpenter would have me over and set up face-to-face and spend hours with me. I still listen to those tapes today, and I can't play today what he was playing 20 years ago. Today, I play within my means but I've learned how to make a band sound better than without steel. For me, that keeps me wanting to learn and love this instrument. This instrument needs young players to hang tough and excell for the future. The motivation is up to you. My motivation is, someday I will nail that lick Gary played for me......20 years ago.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Calvin,
When I took up steel I was a working musician, playing professionally 6 nights a week on lead guitar. I'm a pretty fair guitarist (I've been told) so I thought I'd try the steel as I've always loved it and wanted to play it. I'd done steel licks for a long time on guitar with a volume pedal and a Bigsby vibrato. When I got a good pedal steel and started trying to learn it I was really shocked. I'd tried other stringed instruments before and took them up pretty easily but the dang steel was a horse of a different color. After a while I learned some things that I thought I could play fairly well until I took the thing to my gig with me and set it up. The first song I tried sounded horrible and it was all downhill from there. I practiced some more at home and then took it out again with almost the same result. I've been playing steel for a lot of years now and still aren't anywhere near the place I'd like to be on the instrument but I love it so much I'll never give it up for anything. Lead guitar's still my #1 instrument but if I have practice time at home I never take my guitar out of the case, it's always the steel. I think the darn things are addicting...Have a good 'un..JH

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

maybe you folks did'nt understand my point. i never blamed anyone for my failure but myself. one of my problems is that i am always changing locations and that makes it hard to find a good teacher, but let me get back to the money issue for just a sec. when i first got my steel i was in colorado , and i got lucky and found who i consider to be one of the best players i have ever heard bar none . he was also the best teacher a student could ever ask for . after my first lesson i asked him how much i owed him , his reply was something that has stuck with me , it was this ...if you have to pay someone to help you on the steel then that person doesn't deserve to sit behind one , he felt that he needed to pass on what he had learned. i have since ran into many that without getting paid would not give you the time of day. unfortunly i only got to spend a couple of days with this fine gentleman before i had to move on.
also for those that think i didn't put forth enough effort . think again i have had a lot of down time where i spent 6-8 hours a day sitting at the steel . there are some REALLY GREAT folks here on the forum ...there are also some SNOBS here...as for the comments about not enough dedication to the steel if you have dedicated your entire life to a musical instument you have big problem .all i meant to do by posting was to say THANK YOU to those that helped me and to say shame on those that are just out for a buck.
calvin

Gere Mullican · From: LaVergne, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

I have been trying to learn to play this thing now for about 60 years. A long time before there were pedal as we know them today. I, like some of the others, stil don't "get it". But I keep on whacking at it and consider myself a fair "steel player wannabee". I can hold my own with some of the pickers. I have never had anyone to show me anything. I was not fortunate enough to be around those godd pickers to learn from like most of the other guys that learn from each other. I started on pedals in 1954 when I had a pedal installed on my 7 string Gibson at a machine shop. Peewee Rogers can tell you about this machine shop because he had his put on there too. However, I still love to try to play and I do play every Thursday night here in Nashville and enjoy it so much that I do it for free. I would love to have someone that can do the speed picking stuff to show me a few of those licks one time. The I think I have the ability to put them in a lot of different applications. That will probably never happen but I keep on hoping. And I will NEVER give it up until they pry my bar from my cold dead hands. By the way, I am 72 and started when I was 12. I hope my post will encourage some others to think hard about giving it up if they really love the PSG.
Gere

Steve Howard · From: High Ridge, Missouri, USA

The way I feel about this is maybe you found a teacher that all the free time in the world and he was more than happy to share some of it. Other people have wives, kids, other family members and their own hobbies that they want to spend their free time on. I would try to be as helpful as possible to anyone play a guitar or steel guitar looking for advise if possible. But there is also the perspective that I don't want to give up my free time with my family (or the million things you have to get done in your free time) to spend hours helping a stranger along the way to musical bliss. I say good luck, let me know if you have a question or two, but I've got my own things I got to tend too.

Now, if you want to pay me $30-$50 an hour, a monetary value of my time makes up for the intrusion on the rest of my life.

I would assume many others have the same opinion. And then there are those who are willing to help you in anyway imaginable and have run into many on this forum in the short time I've been here. Those are special people and you can't expect them to be around every corner you travel.

BTW - on that note, thanks BOB for the Chord Chart you sent to me through the mail just because you wanted to help a forum member out. I really appreciate it.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Yeah boys, there IS more to say. December will be mile marker for my second year learning steel. So from THIS rookie's viewpoint, I now speaketh. SILENCE, PLEASE!! UU--UUUMMM. Now, I have sought help, bought tapes, asked questions on this fine forum, sought more help, bought more tapes, asked more questions. I have yet to find one rude person, unwilling to "carry" me the mile themselves if that's what it takes, for a fee OR for free. There are associations loaded with accomplished steel players eager to help a newbie hang tough for the journey. In other words, the help is there, Calvin. I have so much material to work up, that my teachers have presented at my level of understanding that it will keep me busy for a year if I'm lucky!! If I don't get through it, it sure ain't THEIR fault, but mine!! I AM A HAPPY CAMPER!! I am enjoying every insane moment of this journey!! and I practice about 15 hours a week. And I'm here to stay.
You may be a little isolated in your area, but I think you did say there were a couple of steelers near you. So I don't think that would be your problem. Pay them for their time, they deserve the respect.
We as newbies are attracted to this fine instrument because we hear fine music played by the skilled, talented hands of the best of the best players. And we want to be just like them. So, impatience rears it's ugly head, and now we become our own worst enemy. We have to not only learn the techniques that are so unique to this instrument, but we need to turn within ourselves and find contentment with our measley progress. If we don't do this what seems to be a big hill starts to turn into a huge mountain. That's when the steel goes up for sale and we quit. SOOOOOOOOO What works for me, is I break it down to smaller goals. If you want to move a distance of a foot, don't try to move the distance of a foot in one try, but just move an inch, 12 times, and you will find you move the distance of a foot. And as your skill level increases, you will move the distance of a foot easily, eventually. Then you can look at moving a yard---one foot at a time. Break your studys down to what you can handle, and accomplish your big goals with little goals adding up. And don't forget to enjoy the journey to get there. And remember, you will probably always be the last to "see" your progress.
Calvin, take a little breather, go get your self another steel, and a new game plan and start back up. The support is here, you are always welcome. I can't save the steel world by my self, so come on!!

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

If it's not fun, you shouldn't feel bad about not wanting to do it. Music is not a chore, at least past the obligatory piano lesson your parents made you take. Personally, I can't stop playing - I often "neglect" social niceties, I have no idea what the hit TV shows are this year, I can't keep track of sports, my housework is sketchy to say the least, there's just something about fingers on strings, bars and picks and noises comin' out that tickles me pink. Music's my dope. I'm sure things would go more "normally" for me if I was more addicted to money, or keeping a wife happy, but I'm most content spinning melodies. I hope you find happiness.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Calvin,
I always pay teachers for lessons. I'm a poor person but I feel that the lessons I have gotten have been well worth it. I also charge people for lessons and I'm not a snob.

What do you do for a living ? Is your time more important and valuable than someone who plays music for a living ?

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Bob
intonation help

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