How do you memorize material?

Robert Porri · From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

I have a question to throw out that's of interest to me and it might be to others.

When I learn certain songs (scales, chords, or licks may apply here too) , memorization happens very intuitively. With other songs, it's like pulling teeth.

If I was teaching a student and they asked a question about memorization like "How do you memorize music?" I would tell them you have to learn a small section at a time and string notes, measures or phrases together little by little. Playing through an entire song over and over would take much longer than breaking it down into little sections.

Aside from that, or even if you just want to validate that approach, what is the best (or combination) of ways you find to memorize music? Any unique ideas that work for you etc. etc.?

Bob P.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

This is why I make .wav files of the sound tracks (i.e. Woodshed Workshop tracks) on my PC. Then use Transkriber to block a portion of the track and repeat it. Learn the whole pattern/tune eventually, but only at the rate of about a page of tablature a night. Any more than that & the next night it's gone...

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

The Suzuki method works best for me. I listen to it CONSTANTLY. In the car, at home, when doing odd jobs around the house, and ESPECIALLY at bedtime. NOT just when practicing.

Try it. It works.
Dr. Suzuki was a very smart man who has trained very young children to play and understand very complex music by repetition.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I pretty much do just what Larry states above but didn't realize that it was a formal music method !

While driving , which I do a lot, being a Sales rep for 2 states, I listen, listen,listen, visualize the fretboard,listen for positions ,listen some more and then sometimes if I'm lucky when I actually sit in front of the Instrument it seems like all the hard work has already been done !

And all this time I thought driving around listening to music all day was a cool way of life, I had no idea it was a formal music theory program !

t

Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

You could just get the basics down, get a bag of tricks and play off the top of your head. Too many times players have come to me unhappy because they spent a year learning a song and when it came time to play it with a band, the key was different, the song was longer or shorter, the band played the wrong progression. So where does that leave you? Why waste all of that time IF you are not going to play the song in a controlled situation.

Tricks and licks put here and there could be just what the doctor ordered.

Larry Behm

Gary Ulinskas · From: San Diego, California, USA

Maybe it's just my weakening brain's method, but the way I cement a song in there is to sit down at my computer and write the TAB from memory. If I can't do it, I go back to the other room where the steel is, and play the piece until I can visualize the TAB in my head. Kinda the reverse of Ray Montee's method the visualization practice. It isn't quick and easy, but it works- and I have a sheet of TAB (for the way I play the piece) when I'm done.
RE Larry's comments about having to be able to impovise. True. But I have found that I now know the 1st songs I learned so well (from playing them so many times) that I can improvise, change keys, etc. I guess it just comes with repetition and getting to understand the instrument.

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Gary Ulinskas
MSA S-12 + Walker mono

[This message was edited by Gary Ulinskas on 28 July 2004 at 08:16 PM.]

[This message was edited by Gary Ulinskas on 28 July 2004 at 08:17 PM.]

Jennings Ward · From: Edgewater, Florida, R.I.P.

Robert, there is only one WRONG way. That is not to practace..Reputition becomes a habit. Work slowly, build up speed as you progress at your rate, not someone elses.. Dont get discouraged....It took me 50 years to learn a particular lick on the fiddle, but it was always in my mind, and well you know the rest of the story....But it made me feel good to eventually master it. Some I never will learn, but I will try when the oportunity presents itself...I like double and triple stops and shuffels with the bow. some are easy , some not......fun though.. Basics are the most important thing you can learn, without them, you will always be ;ost......hope this help ans. your question......best 2 U.......Jennings......

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

clive swindell · From: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK

Robert

If you are trying to learn a song with a complicated chord progression, I find that by just following the progression in different positions then more often than not the melody will emerge.

I tried it last evening with 'Crazy' and it works for me.

Learning from tab is all well and good but there comes a time when you have to go it on your own.

Winnie Winston · From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.

A grand old doctor once told his pupils:

"Memorizers have no perception."

You listen to it until you can hear it in your head. Then you sit down with the instrument and figure out how to play what's in your head.
If you can't *hear it internally* you'll never be able to play it right-- because you will be trying to memorize the pedal/knee/fret/fingers position and be forgetting about the music.
That's what worked for me on banjo. On a ride back from Union Grove one year, Jody Stecher and I drove the other occupants of the car crazed because we *sang* all of Scrugg's instrumental recording-- sometimes one of us doing the whole thing (banjo, fiddle break, mandolin break, dobro break) and sometimes swapping parts.
We both knew what it sounded like.
When I started steel, that's the same approach I took. Unfortunately most steel stuff is a bit more melodically complex than bluegrass, and my "note ear" is not that developed-- so I miss some stuff. But what I really hear is the rhythm of it -- and that's what I try catching.
But... you gotta hear it before you can play it.
If you can't hear it, keep trying. If you Still can't hear it, try something else-- music ain't for you.

JW

[This message was edited by Winnie Winston on 29 July 2004 at 03:13 AM.]

Dave Diehl · From: Mechanicsville, MD, USA

You said it all Winnie! I was thinking that very thing this morning. You have to hear it in your mind and let your hands do what you're hearing.

Charles Curtis · Posted 29 Jul 2004 5:19 am

About 40 years ago a friend told me to "get it in your heard first" and in my opinion that's what works for me. I've been trying to get a C-6 piece down from just tab and it's rough. The original is on an LP and that involves etc..... I like an instructional video and tab; both benefit me and make it easier. I have one video that is without tab. I have just about wore out the pause button on the remote, writing down all the instructions, and I am still lost. With tab, I can immediately see where it's at.

Robert Thomas · From: Mehama, Oregon, USA

I have always gotten the tune down in my head and then just sat down at the steel and played it. It seems that when you have it in your head first, your brain will then tell your fingers what to do. It has always worked very well for me.

Steve Hitsman · From: Waterloo, IL

It's threads like this one that make the Forum invaluable. GREAT tips. Thanks, guys.

David Doggett · Posted 29 Jul 2004 9:27 am

How do I memorize things? Temporarily.

But seriously, the above methods work okay if you are trying to memorize the melody (i.e., learn the melody and harmony sound in your head, memorize a small chunk at a time, string it all together). But they don't work well for me if I am trying to memorize an "arrangement" that includes harmonizing and filling in the background. For that I have to have a tape or CD to play along with. I just have to play it over and over until I get my part worked out, then play it over and over until I do it more or less the same way each time. I rarely have time to do this, so I'm mostly improvising leads and fills as I go, somtimes to good effect, sometimes not.

seldomfed · From: Colorado

So Prof. Harold Hill was right! The "think system" really works

Think the 'Minuet in G' boys -- da,dada,dada,dada,dada - da,dada - da,dada

chris

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.book-em-danno.com

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Amen, Winnie!

I had the pleasure of spending some time talking with John Hughey at the Time Jumpers show in MA last week. I asked him about his orientation on steel, and he told me he learned to read at one time, but that it turned out not to be required-ever-in the studio, so he didn't keep up with it. The big question I had was in terms of his chord soloing on the C6th, to which he replied "I don't know the names of all of em!"

But he sure can HEAR them- he knows what he wants and knows how to get it.

Some of the greatest musicians of all time (Wes Montgomery springs to mind) HEARD what they needed to hear- whether they labled stuff in the "traditional fashion" or not. The ears are everything!

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff.

Gary Ulinskas · From: San Diego, California, USA

It seems to me that some of the replies here critical of "memorizing" are written by people who have been playing so long, that they have forgotten what it was like to be a beginner on a pedal steel. I think it took me three months before I could play Jeff Newman's version of "CRAZY" thru without a mistake. It was discouraging, but I would go back to his words on the introduction page of JUST JAMMIN for encouragement.
"REPETITION, REPETITION. .....it takes 10 to 20 attempts (at each lick?!?!) to memorize something before the mind starts to learn it. ...The more you relearn something from a cold start the more you retain."
He devotes a full half page to explaining how to break the work up into manageable pieces etc. I don't want to put more for fear of violating a copywrite etc.
The JUST JAMMIN package is worth what you pay for it, just for those words from the master.
I consider the CD and TAB as a free gift.
Maybe we're getting into semantics over the word "memorize", but it seems that plently of practice does something to the mind and body that helps the player.

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Gary Ulinskas
MSA S-12 + Walker mono

[This message was edited by Gary Ulinskas on 29 July 2004 at 11:34 AM.]

[This message was edited by Gary Ulinskas on 29 July 2004 at 11:36 AM.]

Robert Porri · From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

I really didn't take any responses as being critical to memorizing. I just think the emphasis has been on listening and hearing rather than the written page. However, there ARE times when you do not have access to a recording and especially at early stages we can't just look at tab or written music and be able to hear how it would sound on a new instrument (in our case PSG) it until we play the written notes (or hear a recording). There are a lot of Classical Guitar pieces I played going through college that I did not hear beforehand. I came from a Rock background and Classical Guitar was new to me. I memorized them by working on small chunks at a time. Once I had learned them, I could then look at the music and hear it without playing.

Great thoughts from everyone here.

Bob P.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Charles Curtis · Posted 29 Jul 2004 4:13 pm

There is one part of the catholic mass that is normally sung and I have no problem but on rare occasions when the cantor is absent I have trouble reciting it. Funny how the mind works.

Drew Howard · From: 48854

What Larry said. Repetition in listening and practice will get it burned into your brain.

Drew

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Drew's Website

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

Where else but on this forum could you get so much good information on the steel guitar.
I guess I been playing so long that if I can hear the song in my head I can play it. Then I play it from the open position, then with the pedals down then with the Es lowered then a couple more positions.There are so many places to start from and so many patterns that it boggles the mind. I love rhythm tracks,they let me kind of wander all over the neck playing stuff I didn't know I could play.There is no substitute for a good Bass and Drum.If you can listen to Jonh Hughey's track of " my window faces south " and just sit on your seat and not pick, sell your horn and quit.
Just my 2 cents.

Old Bud

Charles Turpin · From: Mexico, Missouri, USA

I think one of the most sincable line that Winnie has said is the same sentence i think i have seen in a joe Wright course i have. That is to program your brain, and you do this by repetition of works. In the course i got of his it says to play the exercises over and over till your fingers get tired then play them some more. This programs your brain. Then you hear them sounds in your head. But if you listen to most songs. Even Vince Gill will tell you like he tends to lend toward the melodie of the song.If you watch every artist has there little tricks .What is fun when you are sitting in playing on a bandstand. The lead guitar plays for example a song you dont know then he looks at you and says take it. That natural thinking has to be there or you will be plain stumped. But to me the thing to remember in this is don't get discouraged at not remembering how someone else does something cause you never know instead of that memorized thing something better might come out.But the trick to memory is jsut practice

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