Chordal Dysfunction.. Ouch!!

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

For me, at times, playing single note melodies can build confidence, which quickly subsides when an attempt is made to apply proper chordal inversions, that will blend harmoniously to the written music. There must be a reliable method, (excluding reference material), that would restore a dauntless approach, in selecting correct relative positions.

Bill H.

nick allen · From: France

I'm not sure about "dauntless"

- but this is the problem I find too - I think it applies to any chordal instrument, and maybe keyboard players have a better handle on it than some of the rest of us. I'm OK with the "main" downbeat notes, where you can pretty much harmonise using the chord tones of the appropriate chord - it's the "passing notes/chords" that I find hard to grasp, or develop a system for. (Specific musical examples would help here, but I'd need more time and an instrument handy to give them...).
Looking forward to an interesting thread, I hope

Nick

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Bill H.
Could you please specify a little further what input-conditions apply to the problem of selecting correct relative positions.
You want the chords to blend with the written music which means you already have the chords or the melody line or both. That is reference material or not? (excluding reference material?)
Or do you only have the melody line and want to play proper chords over that melody line.

Only thing I have noticed when tryin to play the melody harmonized or as chords is that a lot of dim chords appear a lot of the time.

Bengt Erlandsen

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Nick A.,

At this Christmas Season a good example would be "Blue Christmas". I think a steel guitarist would be hard pressed to surpass the song's melody lines, by choosing another of the popular songs of the Holiday Season. If a steel guitarist has reached a point, where he/she can actually play all of the one beat chords, that are required, to satisfy the discriminating ear, prepare yourself for a treat.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Bengt E.,

I'm making reference to personal memory recall of a given melody. Squinting at sheet music is out! If the average steel guitarist, who possesses a yen to play instrumentals, should decide to start at the beginning of learned melodies, it would require many hours of playing time, to succeed in presenting his/her repertoire in its entirety. For that reason, I find myself clearing away the music stands, until the pigeons have cleared the area. Passing chords, and finishing chords that command resolve, are not always included in sheet music. The icing on the cake chords, like those found in "Blue Christmas", are good examples, and exemplify reasons for further studies into proper chordal arrangements.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 December 2003 at 07:40 AM.]

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

One approach is to understand "the chords" of the tune, then to realize that every melody note has a relationship to the chord of the moment. You can harmonize that particular chord under the melody notes that agree with that chord spelling (i.e. are part of the chord); you can harmonize according to the scale, that is, if the chord is C and the melody note is D, you can use the V (GBD) as a passing harmony if it sounds good, or Dm (DFA) or Em7 (EGBD) or F6 (FACD) or Am11 (ACEGBD)
or reductions of those voicings- a bit of re-harmonization, conceptually.

Familiarity with diatonic and pan-diatonic structures in 3rds, 4ths and 6ths with the occasional spice of dissonance will keep you amused for hours and allow many creative solutions. If it sounds good, it is good.

Or if you SAY it sounds good!

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

Why not get a pro book on vocal harmony arranging and go from there? The stuff they do in the studio is why more complicated than what your average bar band does with 3rds and 5ths. I would average the studio vocal harmony approach with the choice chord grips for your tuning/instrument and add substitutions/partial chords that fall under the melody etc. Different tunings are gonna have different approaches that work really well. You can go from basic harmony to pretty deep stuff. In the end, I think the ability to harmonize melody lines on your steel off the top of your head will help you really know your instrument and help you to develop your own individual voice. I'm still studying tab for C6 non pedal, but this is what I will end up trying to achieve in the end.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

John M.,

I agree wholeheartedly, to the jigsaw puzzle approach, although there is one hang-up that may very well interfere with that technique. The hang-up is a common problem that will halt progressive chordal activity in its tracks. Most E9th chromatic setups are inadequate, and do not feature the changes required, to match a backside kicking guitarist. A minimum of mechanical adjustments, and changes will go a long way in getting their attention. If this a problem, try studying the chordal options open to the E9th tuning, IF a missing note is not possible on the "standard" setup. Reconsider the advantages of bringing a smile to the face of a class act guitarist, by effectively adding more changes to your instrument.

Bill H.

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Bill, I am familiar with Blue Christmas by Elvis Presley which has a simple progression. What version are you refering to that has all those "one-beat" chords? It's not clear to me what you are getting at in this thread, or if you are asking for assitance. Please clarify. I'm going out for a couple of hours. I'll check in when I come back.

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Jeff L.,

I'm referring to the standard version of "Blue Christmas", which expresses the melody as it was written. I don't believe that the beautiful Christmas Song should ever have been put in a category of simplification, relative to chordal arrangement.

Bill H.

John Kavanagh · From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada * R.I.P.

My apologies if you're already past this stage, but basic practical approach is the shotgun method - try a major third above or below, if that doesn't work try a minor third above or below. Or sixths, same process. You'll get faster at it the more you do, and if it doesn't sound good at a cadence (or is getting too sweet) try a fourth or fifth.
You'll use both major and minor thirds on a line to stay in the key, but your ear will tell you what's right and wrong if you listen to yourself.

Sure, this is a simple approach, but it's how most by-ear harmonising works, and the more you do it, the more you'll unconsciously learn what works and you'll be teaching your ears, and your hands.. then you can try and find the third note in some or all of the chords, and that will keep you busy for some time.

[This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 17 December 2003 at 10:26 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

A song as written by the songwriter is lyrics, a melody and a chord progression. When you buy sheet music, you typically get a piano arrangement of the song - not what the songwriter wrote. The sheet music arrangement by its very nature embellishes the song in a way that is suitable for the piano. A steel guitar arrangement would be different, of course.

From the melody and the chord progression we can find the primary harmonies that must be played on the down beats. We may choose to hold those chordal harmony notes as the melody changes above them, or we may move the harmonies with the melody for a more pleasing effect. Such is the art of arranging.

We've all heard backup singers who start out simply singing notes from the chords while they learn the words and timing. As they become more familiar with the tune, they start to track the melody more as it rises and falls. When they are unsure, they simply sing a note from the chord, because that is never strictly wrong.

Think of your steel guitar arrangement as two or three singers, in harmony.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 17 December 2003 at 10:31 AM.]

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Bobby Lee,

I suggested early on to forum member Nick Allen that "Blue Christmas" is a song that has some great chordal changes written into the melody lines.
However, there is a signature song that will offer greater challenges, should a fellow musician be interested in a specification that is representative of some serious chordal involvement. I hereby submit, "Tea For Two" as one of the familiar tunes, that requires a great deal of concentration on the part of the steel guitarist. Actually, I've never seen it listed anywhere, as part of a feature song list, even though it has been part of my repertoire for a number of years. I would be very pleased to hear that someone, somewhere, has worked out the proper chords in the noncountry tune.

Bill H.

(Edited in the quiet of the night, to remove grammatical errors.)

B.H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 December 2003 at 09:55 PM.]

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Jesse P.,

Thanks for the interesting input. I hope that you will enjoy moving on to pedal steel guitar. One of my favorite tunes is "Harbor Lights". Are you familiar with that old melody? It's a wonderful song, played straight or pedal.

Bill H.

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Bill, I listened to a few versions. Elvis Presleys is probably the best known, and it was a simple chord arrangement. I also listened to Celine Dion, who did it slower and more like a jazz ballad. I took that as the basis of what you were looking for, and worked out a chord arrangement to suit the tune (something I always like doing). I've shown it with the lyrics, followed by a tab with the measures. A slash "/" is followed by a bass note different from the name of the chord, and a comma "," in a measure indicates a repeat on the beat of the previous chord. Also, I can't seem to get the chords to line up perfectly over the lyrics, so the measures at the end will show you exactly where the chords are placed. .. Jeff

            CM7 C6  CM7       Am7 Ab7      G7       Dm7 G7


I'll have a Bl----ue Christmas         with--out you


            Dm7/C Bb7  Ab7     G7  CM7      C6 CM7


I'll be so bl-------ue thinking   a-bout you


         Gm7       C#m7b5 F#7b9        F6      Em7   A7    Dm7 F6 E7 EbM7


Décor-ations of red                  on a green Christ-mas tree


D7     Em7    Fdim7    D7/F#   G7              Am7 Bbdim7 G7/B


Won't be the same dear,        If you're not here with     me


 


              CM7 C6 CM7       Am7 Ab7   G7     Dm7 G7


I'll have a Bl---ue Christmas       that's certain


                      Dm7/C Bb7 Ab7          G7     CM7 C6 CM7   


And when that blue            heartache starts hurtin'


            Gm7     C#m7b5 F#7b9             F6              F#m7 B7


You'll be doin' all right,            with your Christmas of white,


    Em7 Eb7    Dm7  G7   CM7     C6 CM7


But I'll  have a blue, blue Christmas





(CM7 , C6 , )(CM7 , Am7 Ab7)(G7 , Dm7 ,)(G7 ,,,)


(Dm7/C , Bb7 ,)(Ab7 , G7 ,)(CM7 , C6 ,)(CM7 ,,, )


(Gm7 ,,,)(C#m7b5 , F#7b9 , )(F6 , Em7 A7)(Dm7 F6 E7 EbM7)


(D7 , Em7 ,)(Fdim7 , D7/F# ,)(G7 , Am7 Bbdim7)(G7/B ,,,)


(CM7 , C6 , )(CM7 , Am7 Ab7)(G7 , Dm7 ,)(G7 ,,,)


(Dm7/C , Bb7 ,)(Ab7 , G7 ,)(CM7 , C6 ,)(CM7 ,,, )


(Gm7 ,,,)(C#m7b5 , F#7b9 , )(F6,,,)(F#m7 , B7 ,)


(Em7 , Eb7 ,)(Dm7 , G7 ,)(CM7 , C6 ,)(CM7 ,,,)

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 17 December 2003 at 08:39 PM.]

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Jeff L.,

What a wonderful Christmas present. It has given me something to do, as I will be studying your chordal arrangement of "Blue Christmas" over the Holiday Season. This is really neighborly on your part, to put that much effort into a response. After such kindness, I do not wish to appear to be contrary, while exchanging views on the subject matter. However, I would like to reserve the right to look for two "crispy" finish chords at the very end of the song, and the possibility of using minors, rather than minor 7th chords in a few lines of the song.

Bill H.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

You da Man Jeff

Tis the season to be Jolly

Happy Holidays

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

A perfect example of using theory to improve your musical chops.
Jeff nice arrangment.

And happy holidays to y'all

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

S.G.F.M.

To go out on a limb by stating that the "standard" E9th setup is inadequate, simply means, that tones required to provide 4 selected pitches to form a desired chord is not possible. Most melodies, such as "Blue Christmas", would require usages of such chords. One in particular, would require a 1/2 step lowering of the 7th string. I don't believe that the E-F or F#-F note can be found elsewhere on the steel, while keeping the 4th and 8th strings natural. Another example, is to have the changes to split the two B tones of the A pedal, and the F# tones of the B pedal, which would allow for accessibility of additional chords.

Bill H.

(Edited to prevent misinterpretation)

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 18 December 2003 at 10:32 PM.]

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

The preceding reply was edited to prevent misinterpretations. I want to be assured, that nothing of that nature takes place on this forum.

Thanks...

Bill H.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Bill H.
Thanks for answer about "input conditions" Whenever I try to find chords over a melodyline I can recall I usually start in a position/set of strings that allow me to play a voicing as maj7/dom7/min7/dim or aug. That would most likely be on strings 7 6 5 4 3 on the E9 for me. Having additional levers/pedals can make chords flow more easily into each other. But a 3+4 setup can go a long way too.
Just curious about the two voicings you mentioned in "Blue Christmas". Could you list the two voicings w the notes like example C (R 3 5 R) to C#m7b5 ( R b3 b5 b7 ) or (C E G C) to (C# E G B) so I can have a little brain-puzzle how to find a way to do it on the E9.

Jeff L.
Wonderful job w the chords.
If you want chords to line up w text you can use {tab} {/tab} brackets same as writing tabulature to make chords line up in the proper place above lyric line.

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 19 December 2003 at 02:35 AM.]

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Bengt E.,

Thanks for the interesting reply.
The notes for the last two chords, played before the final key of F chord are: Bb,C#,E, A, then play C,F,A,G,E, finishing with key of F chord. Please let me know if these tones are easily played on your E9th setup. The two chords fit in at the end of blue, blue Christmas. I added the F tone also.
They fit like a glove.

Bill H.

(Edited for correction. I had White Christmas in the back of my mind. I regret the error.)

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 19 December 2003 at 02:52 PM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 19 December 2003 at 02:58 PM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 20 December 2003 at 07:05 AM.]

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

The voicing A E C# Bb is more than the range of a 10string E9 can handle. But inside the range of an ExtE9 or a C6.



A - - - - - - E - - - - - - - - C#- - - - - - - - Bb


A - - - - - - - F - - - - - - C - - - - - - - - A -

My S12extE9 setup can play that voicing w/out any problems. Either legato or as two separate chords.

On C6 I would guess P5 or P8 but it would require an additional knee-lever to the 5+1 setup to get the Bb note on top.

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 19 December 2003 at 10:52 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

That is a very wide voicing, but if you'll settle for putting the C# between the A and the E (A C# E Bb), it is easily played at the 7th fret:

F#______ or ______


D#___7__    ______


G#______    ______


E ______    __7b__


B ______    ______


G#___7#_    __7#__


F#___7__    __7___


E ______    ______


D ___7__    __7___


B ______    ______

In my explorations I have found very few so-called "jazz" chords that couldn't be played on the standard E9th tuning.

Bill, your comment above included lyrics from the song 'White Christmas'. Very different from 'Blue Christmas', the Elvis Presley hit which I've always thought of as a 3-chord tune. Maybe that's why this topic confused me from the start.

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 19 December 2003 at 11:11 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Also, at the 8th fret you could use the A+F position and lower the second string to get the top Bb note. That might be a better setup for resolving to an F chord (pedals down).

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

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