Play For Yourself Or Others

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

When I first started playing a man gave me some good advice.
If you just play what you like you have just one person in attendance, if you play what they like and or understand, you play to all.
When you perform do you try to figure out what the people like or just play what you like? Do you play over the heads of every one or try to play what they understand and enjoy? Hope you know what I am trying to say.
When a person speaks to a group and uses words they do not understand , what you have said has no meaning.
Please give your ideas on this, as I think it is necessary to make contact with your listeners so they may enjoy what you are doing or saying.
Try not to take this out of context. What we need to know is how to feel what others want to hear, or just stay home and practice.

ernie

Robert Thomas · From: Mehama, Oregon, USA

Hi Ernest!
Your question has two answers. The situation in which you play determines the music. Who is your audience?
I entertain exclusively for an older generation, of whom the majority reside in nursing homes and rehabilatation facilities. The music I play is numbers that are familiar to them, and fortunately, ones I enjoy playing over and over if necessary. If I were playing in a public setting like a club or similar place I would have to tailor my music for that particular audience.
Hope my veiwpoint is of some help.

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

Ernie,
As Jeff Newman says, "just play the melody". All listeners understands that!

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Ernest, one of the best thread questions I've seen in a while! As in most matters of art and creativity, there are at least two sides to the equation- not just the presentation, but the listener's expectations and attitude. We've all seen or heard of examples like the Jazz/rock tunes at a convention causing some listeners to complain or leave. Was the performer playing over their heads? Or were those folks choosing to "not hear" music that was new or threatening? And what about the other people who were thrilled to hear something different? Which group should one play to? If all performance was based on "playing it safe" so as to not alienate the listeners, where would all of the historical progress in all the forms of music have come from? Would modern classical, blues or jazz even exist? Western Swing? I would agree that some venues, say senior citizens' homes, require sensitivity on the part of performers to "fill the bill" (although there's probably as much room for a Jazz melody arrangement of "Stardust" as there is for a three-chord rendition of "You are my Sunshine"). As a listener, I appreciate tastefully done safe renditions of "the same old", but I much prefer musicians who take me somewhere unexpected, who challenge me to listen and hear things from a new perspective. I hope I can bring some of that to my listeners as well.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Robert Thomas · From: Mehama, Oregon, USA

This a response to Marks comments. "You are my sunshine"? There is far more to playing for nursing home residents then what you classify as "old". I have a list of over 200 numbers which I play and sing. These people also love sing-a-longs. They love to participate. I perform Steel Guitar Rag for those who like that, Swing tunes, Glenn Miller, slow and fast numbers. Blues, country, many old standards and the list goes on and on. How about Beatle numbers, the Carpenters, Jim Croce, Ann Murray, etc. The nursing home residents love a broad range of music just like anyone else. Please do not stereo type them, until you have done it yourself. No offense meant, just wanted to make sure you understood what I was trying to say.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I pretty much play for the audience. There are some things that I like to listen to that most audiences can't stand. I don't perform that kind of music.

Luckily, I also enjoy popular music.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Listening to music can be as complex as playing it.

There are many different levels of listening. A baby in a crib clearly enjoys soft music, but they listen at a different level than a young person or a grownup.

A musician should listen on an entirely different level when he has his musician's ears on. Listening for key, tempo, melody, harmony, rhythmic figures, and timbre are very important for the musician to understand what makes the performance of a piece of music work. It's also important to point out that a musician doesn't always listen like a musician. It's important to let the music move you rather than analyze whether that was a b5 or a #11. Some musicians miss some of the fun of music by the obsession to overanalyze what they listen to.

Saying that music is 'over the head' of the audience may not be granting the members of the audience the benefit of the doubt, just because they may not understand the technical aspects. I find that non-musicians usually find the soul in the music before many musicians.

There is one aspect of music that ALL LISTENERS, from the babe in the crib to old farts like me, all understand 100% and that's the HEART AND SOUL OF THE PERFORMANCE. It's true that some rock may be louder than you like or some jazz more dissonant than you like, but THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. There is wonderful essence in almost all music I've ever heard: one or more musicians doing their best to pour their heart out for all who will listen.

Any musician plays for him/herself at times, but on the bandstand, any musician who understands what it's all about is in a dialog with the other musicians AND THE AUDIENCE.

Great topic.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Robert, I most certainly meant no offense or misunderstanding. As a matter of fact, I've played a number of shows for retirement homes, as well as Altzheimer's care facilities, Hospice and similar care units. I most certainly agree with you (and what Larry says) that folks in those environments were some of the best listeners I've encountered! Hopefully if you'll revist my post you'll see my point to be more that in those venues as any other you have a range of possible material to play that can engage, entertain, and even enlighten, without sticking to the "lowest common denominator" that will do the job without shaking anybody up. I'm just saying I like to hear the bands and musicians that push the envelope toward the creative side rather than the "safe" side. Hopefully I've made myself more clear.

Robert Thomas · From: Mehama, Oregon, USA

Mark, thank you for your positive clarification.
I also play for 4 alzheimer units. I entertain 3 times a week, 12 months a year. I have been doing this for over 7 years and find it the most rewarding time of my life. I don't feel that I have to compete and consequently I can concentrate on the quality of music I play. The audience as you know is a lot of fun to play for and I am allowed to experiment with any song I think they would enjoy. I have learned more challenging music this way and believe it or not they are always appreciative, and forgiving, maybe not so much in the clubs, etc.

Jack Dougherty · From: Spring Hill, Florida, USA

Ernie
Once again you amaze me!!! When we play at our club we mostly play for each other. The folks who come to listen like to hear steel so what we play suits them. As to playing out.....well this is like stepping on a land mine. The steel has morphed into a many faceted instrument. The older generation, if you will, has for the most part accepted it as part of country and western. But we all know that boundry has been breached for a long time . As to what to play for people....well I don't have to list all the players who have taken the instrument to far reaching levels. If you play to an audiance you must also teach them too. If done tastfully there will be a multitude of coverts.

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Jack you stepped on a land mine, I think you ment converts.
Most of the people that come to the jams are well learned as for as PSG, My daughter listed in our flyer about the Quitman show,
(I have been raised with the Steel guitar all my life, and with singing), most of our listeners are steel wise, we had three steelers not set up, and others that played in the past.
For dnces for most part they like slow dances, at least the seniors where we play, also line dances, and about 4 square dances a night. I have become aware of the need of certain songs that fill the floor. Others they just like to listen. We are making a list of the songs they like best and play them every Fri.
This forum thrills me to no end that we can discuss these topics and get input from all sides and learn from our mistakes, and others knowledge.
Also touch base with our idols from the past, Jeff, John, paul, BE, and so many more,
I use to think steel guitar was a small world until this forum, it is bigger than I would have ever dreamed. We can express ideas and learn from those in the know.
Thanks again B0B

ERNIE

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

To clarify, I like all music, I have more than 200 albums of all kinds.
pure Country is my first love. I have played concert band across the US, 31 div. band for 6 yrs, with world wide concerts from New York. Marches, led parades in New York and Miami. When 15 we played things like, Sunny side of the Street, Smoke gets in your eyes.
Here in Ga. and Fl. where we play they fovor pure country most of all. Yes they will listen to other things, we try to find what they like best and play that, not only to listen but dancing. We have people who can barely walk come out on the floor and dance,(very slowly). It is thrilling to see these people have a place they can come to every Fri. and have fun, in a place of family atmosphere, some of them when they come in, come over to me and hug my neck, and do not leave before they come and do the same, and say how much they enjoyed the evening.
This makes all the hundreds of miles worth it to me.
Mabe this will show you where I am comming from.
Also Belinda my daughter in manager of an elderly complex and we play there from time to time. They told her they want to hear country music more.

ernie

Wayne Carver · From: Martinez, Georgia, USA

I don't play steel in public but do some DJ work for parties,etc. I do play all the standard songs that you would hear at most parties but you do have to kinda figure out who your audience is and what they want to hear. I do sneak some stuff in that is not in the norm or safe. I played "Rocky Top" right after a popular rap song at an elementary school dance and they stayed on the dance floor and clogged a little.The grown-ups clapped in time through the song.I think you have to have your own idenity or style. That's what makes you different and people will want you back. It's hard to please all the people all the time, ie. some want country & some want techno so I try to play a variety and throw in some "Run C&W" or a strange version of a classic song they already know.

Jack Dougherty · From: Spring Hill, Florida, USA

Ernie

Right again!!! Really need spell check.:O
At the risk of repeating myself, what I have seen so far in the forum, and I have only scratched the surface, is what appears to be a plethera of talent and information. In my humble opinion, I have found no other instrument that commands such precence.

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · From: Southaven, MS, USA

Who is your audience? They are many and varied. Once upon a time, John Q. Public had a musical IQ---somewhat high, comparatively speaking: They could even tell when the band was out of tune! However, a new generation was borned. Consider this scenario: Take any superstar you wish; let him/her sing their biggest hit before a large audience---but, have 1/2 of the band play in the "right key," and the other half play in another key--straight-faced, no clowning. When the song is ended, what will be the response? HJ

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

That's interesting. I play for a number of variations in a place where there are a lot of people.

No matter who, or how many my MAIN goal is to play "In Tune" and "On Time."

A lot of times I want to show myself and possibly others that I can play something 'just like the record" like Blue Bayou, or Silver Threads. Sometimes I play the melody in unashamed octaves, for a noodling lead player to "get the hint".

Sometimes I play "over the heads" of anybody that hasn't heard the later PF or MJ "quik tagz", but always within being In Tune and On Time.

Then,I tend to play for the bandleader, and if he likes that "crazy leslie" or Ping Pong thing on "With or Without You", and I play it, I'll stay hired. Sometimes I play things like the hit for 8675309 to impress the young rocker that's singing it.

I do those "Buddy Boy" decending double notes to the seventh, for ME ( and ET), the quick 5/4/1 City Lights 1 sub, the rolling PF "calling elvis" patterns when in G C A or B just to show myself that I am thinking fast as well as those PF things I learned last summer to get them beter and better.

I'm actually trying to impress others more than myself. I'm not as easy to impress as most of them seem to be unless I'm listening to someone else. I know too much about "me". I also don't drink or get stoned so I rarely think of myself in the "third person". At least "Eric West" never does.

Most of what I strive for to "show myself" is staying IT/OT like I said, whether it's the Married to a Waitress mile a second MJ licks or the "octave" Amarillo by Morning hit or the second verse fiddle part to "The Dance" in Lydian Mode that I hit the same way every time.

It's definitely a mixture.

Lots of times depending on "who's there".

And "who's not"..

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 12 December 2003 at 09:12 PM.]

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