| Author |
Topic: Clarification......would appropriate, yes/no |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
|
Posted 11 Dec 2003 7:39 pm |
|
On this Forum....when the words "younger guys"; "younger musicians" are used, there's usually an outburst from a portion of the Forum population......charging "unfair criticism" of the younger set.
HOWEVER, when those "younger guys" refer to "those older guys"; "older musicians"; or "elderly" there seems to be little conflict.
WHY is that? If anyone knows, please respond. Answers are needed; not for me, but some of the more aged.
|
|
|
 |
Del Rangel
From:
Clayton, NC
|
Posted 11 Dec 2003 7:59 pm
|
|
Well, I may regret it, but I will take a stab at this anyway.
First off, I say that I am limiting my comments to critiques of younger professional types in reference to NCS in particular. I think a lot of the complaints in this direction often single out people by generation without looking at the big picture. Younger players now-a-days have very little room to manuever. Sometimes I think people believe that they have more control over things than they really do. Also, maybe I have just ignored it, but I cannot remember ever seeing a younger type outright attacking an older player on the Forum. People do attack younger players--"I hate so-and-so"--but players in the public eye at this moment always seem to receive more attention. Personally, I am in awe of many of the "older" guys (and younger for that matter). Have no reason to say anything negative about them. I am not sure if this is what you are asking about, but its my .02--and I feel like that at 41, I am not really young, but not one of the older guys either. (Dang old WWII generation and their boomer kids--just can't escape you people.  )[This message was edited by Del Rangel on 11 December 2003 at 08:06 PM.] [This message was edited by Del Rangel on 11 December 2003 at 08:07 PM.] |
|
|
|
Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
|
Posted 11 Dec 2003 8:41 pm
|
|
| Ray, I do not guess I have noticed what you are referring to. I am pushing 44 in January and some call me young then some call me an older man. To me it does not matter, I am happy to be a member of this forum with a great bunch of guys and gals. I look forward daily to setting down and viewing this website. I guess I may be older since I married a child bride. |
|
|
|
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
|
Posted 11 Dec 2003 9:19 pm
|
|
On this younger vs. older or vice versa thing, I've discovered that "YOUNGER GUYS" now offer to carry some of my equipment out after the gig. When I was your age, nobody even cared. Now too, they call me "Mister"
and hold the doors open for me. That's NICE. One local "younger picker" even stated that I was "an ICON to the younger pickers". Can you imagine that? That must mean I'm now considered old, "officially OLD" or something like that.
We've got some fine young musicians coming up, no doubt about it. But like "sex", WHY does age have to enter into the conversation as much as it does?
We all love the instrument and do our best to represent it to the public in the best possible fashion. WHo cares how old you are or aren't yet. BUT, I'll always allow one to carry my equipment for me, regardless of whether they're younger or older than me. Heck, I'm not too proud.[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 11 December 2003 at 09:22 PM.] |
|
|
|
Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 11 Dec 2003 9:58 pm
|
|
Now, I'm going to refer to "older" players quite a few times in this post, but keep in mind I am not yet 21, so if you are old enough to drink, you are technically older than me, and I give you all due respect. 
I think "younger" players (like myself) look to "older" players with a certain amount of respect (which we should). And when younger players refer to old players, it is usually about how great they are, and how much they contributed to the instrument.
I think it's easy for "older" players to make comments about how the "wippersnappers" ain't doin' it right like "back in the old days". And though that's kind of unfair to us "upstarts", I agree alot of the time.
Jerry Byrd was 29 when he recorded "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry", and I don't hear ANY 29 year olds today 54 years later playing with that level of sophistication and control over their instrument.
Would I help Jerry Byrd load in his amp? You bet I would! Would I mow his lawn? If he gave me a lesson, yes! Not in a condesending "old vs. young" way, but to show my respect and appreciation. Like a student to a teacher.
The reason I play steel guitar is because I grew up listening to people play it who are older than me.
Chris Scruggs |
|
|
|
David Cobb
From:
Chanute, Kansas, USA
|
Posted 11 Dec 2003 10:25 pm
|
|
| Del, I can remember one post where a very young member was making a personal attack on a much older member. Hopefully, that was the last of it. |
|
|
|
CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 12:48 am
|
|
| Respect your elders, that's all there's to it |
|
|
|
Del Rangel
From:
Clayton, NC
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 1:00 am
|
|
| Yep,I agree that we should all respect our elders and particularly around here. We are fortunate to have so many elder statesmen of steel who are gentlemen willing to share lifetimes of irreplaceable knowledge. [This message was edited by Del Rangel on 12 December 2003 at 01:02 AM.] |
|
|
|
Bill Crook
From:
Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 4:50 am
|
|
I don't know about you guys,but my take on this is that ...............
I don't think its the "younger musicians" (aka) "players" that have a conflict with the age thing. It's the up-comeing "Country" singers !!! (Most of whom could'nt carry a tune in two buckets) The younger back-up players are (in general) more professional,schooled than ever before plus many,if not most, have degrees in music.
Most of these kids (singers)ain't ever seen a real country hat,horse,or anything else related to the music we call "Country". This "NCS" is laughable. Every time I see one of them with that big oversized western hat,I laught. They really don't have a clue to how ridiculous and phony they look. If it ain't the western look,they think one must be as un-dressed as possible. It's a sad fact that one really nice clean "Country" female singer is now attempting to "Sell Sex". She had a good thing going untill she went "Pop".
While I'm not exactly a bluegrass fan, I must say that the "AKUS" show is class act in my book. Just plain ole'(great) music and singing. No put-on,sleazy,or otherwise NCS crap.
It really would be nice to get back to some real "Country" acts again. |
|
|
|
David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 4:54 am
|
|
Someone said youth is wasted on the young.
They obviously were NOT young.
With age comes wisdom and expirences...
and a, shall we say, more set in our ways attitude.
Change comes harder for the old (er).
The young on the other hand are living in a ever changing world,
and trying to be their own person,
and differentiate themselves from what has gone before them.
So, you have the more set in their ways and those still finding their way
and it's new path.
There are bound to be prodigals who are more brash,
and more radical in approach than the older set...
So they kinda tend to tweek the older sets expectations of "how it is".
But no one pushes the envelope into new territory without going beyond
what came before, and that can seem less comfortable for the more set in their ways.
As long as it is not a personal attack on someones integrity,
then it is just a difference of opinion
and absolutely normal in the grand scheme of things.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 December 2003 at 04:59 AM.] |
|
|
|
C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 5:39 am
|
|
There once was an ole Bull standing on top of a mountain. Suddenly a young bull came running up to him and said,
"Why don't we run down there in the valley and get us one of them cows?"
The ole bull looked the young bull in the eye and exclaimed,
"why don't we walk down there and get all of em?'
carl |
|
|
|
Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 5:39 am
|
|
I agree with Del and others that we are blessed with a wonderful lineup of what I've referred to in the past as 'elder statesmen'. That moniker was meant with the utmost of respect and reverence.
Guys like my friend Al Marcus who used to saw MultiKords in half to make a 14-string, Bill Stafford who has pioneered the universal tuning, Paul Graupp who has brought us all the great articles on steel guitar through the years, Roy Ayres who has shared his memories with us in a very articulate manner, Gene Jones, whose career and commentary have always been welcome, Jody Carver the master storyteller and Fender insider, and I'm sure there are many others -- not intending to leave out Buddy Emmons, John Hughey, and others. This is truly a team of superstars with whom we converse on a daily basis. I know of no other forums where this is the case. Ray Montee fits into this group as well, as does Carl Dixon and many others too numerous to name.
I'm 53 and not ready to be called an elder statesman yet. I have a lot of living and playing to do before I deserve that distinction. It's true that some may not have the respect for those who blazed the trails we are traveling today, but I find it pretty easy to ignore insulting and negative comments by others in regard to those who have earned my respect.
I think one issue I've had is "what does older mean?". I have heard Paul Franklin referred to as the younger generation. Since Paul is a few years younger than me (although he did make the ranks of 'grampa' before I did), I consider him my contemporary. I may have objected to those in my age group being called 'younger players', simply because of my perspective.
I believe with all my heart that the steel guitar should be opened up to ALL forms of music and that the younger players (like Chris Scruggs, for example, who comes from the Earl Scruggs lineage -- pretty good pedigree if you ask me) can help make this happen. Those of my age ('middle age' for steel players?) can also help bring our instrument into wider acceptance and guys like Dave Easley and David Phillips come to mind.
We are a community. Dividing it into the YOUNG GUYS and the OLD GUYS is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. We should appreciate each other for what we bring to the community. Some of us have a natural respect for our elders -- it's how I was taught to behave -- but we are all equal voices in this wonderful world of music and the steel guitar.
------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 12 December 2003 at 05:41 AM.] |
|
|
|
Jay Fagerlie
From:
Lotus, California, USA
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 6:29 am
|
|
And then there's:
"What I used to do all night now takes me all night to do once"
Of course, I'm NOT speaking from personal experience.....
I have all the respect in the world for "seasoned" players, they are a goldmine of experiences and wisdom that takes years to aquire.
Like you Chris!
HA
Jay |
|
|
|
Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 9:36 am
|
|
First let me say that I'm 42, (old? young? - I don't care, I think it's always how you feel!
I have the highest respect for the "older" players. Let's face it: These were the guys who INVENTED the whole thing. They were experimenting with new tunings, set-ups, trying tfigure out how pedals and knee levers work, just following their imagination and creativity. If we want to know something today, we just go on the internet, post something on the forum and, most likely, have an answer within a few hours. Back then there was nothing, no courses, no Jeff Newman, just learn and develop by question and error.
The best thing to do is to learn from the experience (and carry their guitars, Ray!)
Walter
------------------
|
|
|
|
Bob Carlson
From:
Surprise AZ.
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 10:31 am
|
|
Ray Montee,
I'm 71 and live in one of those Active Adult Retirement Comunitys (Arizona Traditions) and i've got to watch it cause I find myself talking about these older people. In my mind i'm still around twenty four.
Bob |
|
|
|
Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
|
|
|
|
David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 12:06 pm
|
|
I don't recall any outbursts directed at anyone just because they are older. If anything, I recall more outbursts from older guys against things in the present. That does sometimes get an outburst in defense, and I have participated in that. Being in my 50s, I sort of feel like I'm middle-aged and am mediating between the younger and older sets.
I find the younger musicians to be the more tolerant. They listen to and refere older music of all styles, and those who played it. I play with some younger guys. They play what might be called punkabilly or neo-rockabilly and alt-country. They play anything from the Cramps to Link Ray to Ray Price, and might listen to rap as well as big band. There is an incredible smorgasbord of music from the past and present that they partake of.
Many older musicians are unfortunately unable to appreciate much of the music that has evolved since their younger days. There seems to be a regular stream of criticism of things in the present from these guys. I sometimes try to place things in a realistic perspective by pointing out that even country music evolves, and always has. Hank Williams did not sound like Jimmy Rogers, and George Jones did not sound like Hank, and todays singers do not sound like any of them, and tommorow's singers wont sound like today's. "Time changes everything."
I realize there is some kind of comaraderie and comfort for the older guys to commiserate among themselves about how much better things were in the old days. So maybe people like me should just ignore it and let it be. I think we all enjoy hearing the older guys reminisce, as long as they don't use it as an excuse to rank against everything that's come along since. But I don't remember hearing you do that, Ray. But neither do I remember hearing all this criticism of older guys you are talking about. So I'm a little puzzled here.  |
|
|
|
James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 12:48 pm
|
|
I only respect the folks who can out pick me. Sooo---I guess I respect EVERYONE here!!!  No Seriously, I'm like Paul, I can't wait to get a look at the forum everyday. There is so much cookin' all the time, so much to learn. David's point is cool, as well as others, there is room for old and new. I appreciate the fine comments to my past threads from ALL!!! As well as any positive comments made on anyone elses threads. The forum folks are so willing to help--it's great!! Thanx for putting up with my twisted humor, too. When your young, you can't wait to get older. When your older, you wish you were younger, but with your older wisdom. OK, I'm done, I'll get back in my cage now!!! |
|
|
|
Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 12:58 pm
|
|
It's ironic, but I just recieved a telephone call from some organization called "Senior
Citizens Help", wanting to know if they could do anything for me? Why on earth would they be calling me? I am ONLY 72!!!!
www.genejones.com |
|
|
|
John Steele
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 1:28 pm
|
|
quote:
I don't recall any outbursts directed at anyone just because they are older. If anything, I recall more outbursts from older guys against things in the present.
Me neither, Dave. Can someone provide an example ?
Age is irrelevant. Attitude counts for alot more.
-John |
|
|
|
Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 1:49 pm
|
|
Gene. Maybe they have a "Lap Dancers on Wheels Program".
Hard to feel "Old" when your motorcycle sets off all the car alarms up and down the street.
EJL |
|
|
|
RON PRESTON
From:
Dodson, Louisiana, USA
|
Posted 12 Dec 2003 1:57 pm
|
|
"NO JEFF NEWMAN"... 
You crack me up, Man
How Old IS Jeff, BTW? I bet HIS eyes opened when he read THAT.....
I can hear him hollering to his wife:
"Honey, They are PICKING on me"  |
|
|
|
