Old school non pedal blues playing, where is it?

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

I remember reading something by Sonny Rhodes, that there used to be alot of black non pedal blues players around Texas at one time because there were alot of used Hawaiian lap steels floating around due to the Hawaiian music fad. But to tell you the truth, I have never found any that was worth anything much. Now I like Sonny for his singing and chord progressions but his steel playing is boring. There must of been blues players that used Hawaiian steels to phrase like horn sections ect. that were great, but did they ever get recorded or is this a hidden side of steel playing that got lost? Jimmie Vaughn has a cool C6 8 stringer style but that's about all I have ever heard for cool blues playing. Now, I'm talking old school shuffel and jump blues stuff recorded a long time ago, where the heck is it? It would be cool if someone hip, could put this stuff out on a CD i.e. "The best of Hawaiian Steel Guitar Blues Styles". This is one side of non pedal steel I would like to get real good at. The real old acoustic lap steel blues players like "Blind Willie Johnson" aren't sophisto enough for what I'm talking about, you know what I mean Vern?

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 30 September 2003 at 08:26 AM.]

Gary Slabaugh · From: Scottsdale, AZ

Don't you go dissun Blind Willie!

Your idea for a CD would be great.

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

BWJ played bottleneck, not lap style (BTW, try playing 'Dark Was The Night' sometime

) Charlie Patton played lap style on his slide numbers.
You might check out The Black Ace for some great lap style Blues.

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

Yea, I think Blind Willie played lap style and was photographed playing bottle neck with the tip cup on the end of the neck for a promo shot. I already play "Dark was the night" "God walks on water" and "motherless children" in open D by Willie. All the stuff I read about him seem's to indicate that he was mostly a lap player?

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

I'm not talking lap style played by the original delta slide players, I'm talking about electric lap steel played like a horn section in a blues band with jump blues chord comping, solo's etc. This is something I have been working on with non pedal and just thought there must be some masters of this approach out there who were recorded back in the 40's and 50's? I have never heard any of you veteran steel player's talk about this kind of stuff before.

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

I haven't heard much lap steel playing the jump blues style either. Wonder why? Personally, I've found that a lot of charlie Christian's licks flow perfectly on C6th lap steel. Oscar Moore who played with Nat Cole is another of my favorites as well as the great George Barnes. George played with such great feel and attack that his runs seemed to go "boing!" I posted this a long time ago - just about all of these work well in a jump blues context ...
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/001019.html

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

Freddie Roulette was another blues guy, from Chicago I believe, Brads page of steel has an article on him, ha is very unorthadox, I believe he has a new band with Harvey Mandell.

I too am focusing on the blues on this instrument, it does it so well, IMO

CF

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Not exactly what you're asking about but, check out Herb Remmington's "Remmington Glide", also called "Nashville Glide". It's real swinging stuff, very bluesy. Also Buddy Emmons on "Buddy's Boogie".

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

Hmm, you may be right Jesse, but BWJ did have some non-slide tunes. I wonder if he did the Patton thing and just used a regular strung flattop on his lap.

Routlette is a wild player, great stuff.
Didn't Arlen Roth (famous guitar coach to Ralph Macchio

) have a lap steel tape that focused mostly on Blues licks?

David Doggett · Posted 30 Sep 2003 9:19 pm

The Black Ace from Texas was a master of acoustic lap steel. He played a square-neck National tricone with a round bar with flat ends. He had his own radio program once. I have an LP from the '60s or '70s.

But what you are really after is a guy in Los Angeles named L.C "Good-Rockin'" Robinson. He played a 6-string Fender lap steel on a stand. He played B.B. King-like licks. He also played blues fiddle. I have an old LP of him, I think from Arhoolie.

Then, of course, there are the Sacred Steelers. They have turned up from Florida to Philly/New Jersey, and the Northern Midwest. They represent an unbroken line that started with the early Hawaiian craze and the first electric lap steels.

I have recently seen Alvin Youngblood Hart play acoustic lap steel blues. He slipped a "gar head" under the strings to raise them. A gar head is a slim piece of bone or wood that has a groove on the bottom to fit over a fret and a rounded "nose" to help it slip under the strings. It works like a nut raiser, only over a fret instead of the nut. You can slip it in and out without having to losen the strings. Many Mississippi blues guys played open tunings with their fingers anyway, so they didn't even have to change the tuning when they switched to lap slide. A table knife handle was a common steel.

P.S. If you don't know what a gar is, it is an ancient foul tasting trash fish that lives in the Mississippi lakes and bayous. It has a long snout with lots of teeth and eats other fish. They can grow really big. I've seen pictures of ones over 8 feet long. You can't go fishing in the bayous without catching one of the damn things.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 30 September 2003 at 10:35 PM.]

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

For the big band horn section emulation you mention,the closest thing I can think of would be Vance Terry's playing with Billy Jack Wills.Billy Jack was always influenced by jump swing and black big bands.There's 2 CDs of that band. -MJ-

Paul Warnik · From: Illinois,USA

"Billy Jack Wills and his Western Swing Band" featuring Tiny Moore and Vance Terry (playing their classic Bigsbys) was re-issued on CD by Juaquin Records as was Vance's later recordings with Jimmie Rivers and the Cherokees "Brisbane Bob" I was able to mail order these two great CDs from a place called Jacks Record Cellar in San Francisco,CA.

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

Turns out that Blind Willie Johnson married L.C. "Good Rockin" Robinson's sister. Sonny Rhodes says he learned lap steel from L.C. Robinson. Well, this isn't what I was looking for, but it made for a nice blues history lesson. Thanks...

Steve Pierce · From: San Rafael, California, USA

To me the blusiest non pedal lap style out there are the sacred steelers.

Aubrey Ghent's phrasing is loaded with blues licks.

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Steve Pierce

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Try Hop Wilson. Very good voice--blues, some rock and roll. http://www.fye.com/catalog/musicProduct.jhtml?itemId=10135500

Follow this link to sample some of his playing. It's not incredibly sophisticated (some drearily out of tune, but hey...), but I don't think sophisticated jump and swing bands were the least bit interested in hiring steel guitarists. They probably considered it to be "backwoods". Besides, there's a tremendous amount of Western Swing stuff that edges towards that style, such as the aforementioned Billy Jack Wills. Try "There's Good Rockin' Tonight". And truthfully, I don't think you'll find any swinging harder than Joaquin.

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