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Topic: PSG in the studio. The great humbler...? |
Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 6:44 am |
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Hello,
I just finished playing on what I guess is the 4th or 5th full length album I've worked on, this one an instrumental album of ambient improvised drone rock. I should clarify that, I improvise over all the changes, weaving the steel in between the open tuned double neck guitars. Now, I have learned to do some difficult things: speak, read, and write German, run a recording studio, find a parking spot for my F150 in the East Village. But I have to say, playing steel in the recording studio is the toughest thing I have ever tried to do. Dang, but that tape can be cruel!!! Overall, considering I've been playing for less than four years, I think I did a decent job, but it was TOUGH, friends. By the end nothing was sounding in tune, my tone was harsh and piercing...ear fatigue perhaps. I know better than to blame my gear, I should add.
What is the point of this post? I am interested in hearing from the more experienced (and less experienced too, I guess) about your early experiences in the studio: ever feel like you might not have "it", doubt yourself, consider going back to six string, any of this sort of thing? Any triumphs? Headphone tone drive you nuts? What is with the NS-10s anyway?
Thanks for reading my post, and I look forward to your responses.
Gerald |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 7:20 am
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| After 15 years of playing six-string and another 15 playing steel AND six-string I finally had to build my own recording studio so I could go behind closed doors and take whatever time it took to work up and actually play something I would let someone else hear. Now 15 years after THAT,w/30+ years on steel I still prefer to record in my own studio by myself until I'm OK with the results. -MJ- |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 7:27 am
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I have a love/hate relationship with the studio and recording in general.
LOVE: The sound. I can always (well, almost) get a great sound in a decent studio with a decent board and peripherals. Either amped or direct.
HATE: Little mistakes or timing snafus that haunt me to this day. On my own recordings, I'll just beat it to death until I get it right, but rarely have the freedom to do that on someone else's project when they're paying big bucks for studio time.
My ear fatigues much more easily in a live situation with higher sound pressure levels. I usually prefer my studio sound to what I perceive in a live situation, especially when things get loud and everything kinda mushes together. I try to avoid playing in bands that take volume to excess, but it does happen.
I HATE recording live. I've rarely been happy with the outcome.
I try to avoid headphones whenever possible. That usually involves recording direct, but I have a rig that dials me right in pretty quickly. A tube preamp and good reverb and delay help a lot.
A lot of what I dislike about the studio would be resolved if I played for a living and had the luxury and motivation to get my chop to the level they need to be to get things right the first time. My fingers just don't cooperate like they would if I did this all the time. I'm retiring from my day job in six weeks, so I'll be able to actually do the experiment. 
The projects you are working on sound like a blast. That's the kind of stuff I really enjoy. The country stuff is fun, but alt, rock-flavored stuff stretches some different musical muscles. Most of the country sessions I play are for wannabe Tim McGraws and that's not even near the top of my favorite genres.
Most of the problems I have in the studio are from what I call 'weekend warrior syndrome' -- you go for it and it just ain't quite there. Being better prepared is the key.
And, yes, NS-10s are the crappiest studio monitors I've ever had the misfortune of hearing playback through, but most studios I work at are pretty well equipped and staffed by pretty savvy guys.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 7:59 am
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Dear Michael and Larry,
Thanks for those great responses, gives me hope, as both of you have kept at it, in spite of the difficulties. Michael, that was a pretty brilliant move on your part, I have decided that in addition to practicing the usual music stuff on PSG, harmonized scales, modes, etc. I must add practicing RECORDING to my activities, I have a project studio, but have been so busy learning other artists' music that I haven't made the time to work on my own! Larry, thanks for all your input, I think you'll enjoy the Downriver album and will make an effort to have it featured for sale next year when it sees the light of day. |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 8:11 am
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Hi, Gerald, congrats on what sounds like a fun session! I've got an article in the new PedalSteel.US mag about just these questions- Like Larry, I advocate staying away from headphones if you can, even the best ones are very fatiguing. I did a full CD session yesterday for a retro-rockabilly band, the studio was a long drive for me so I knocked it all out in one 6 hour marathon. Normally I'd try to break somnething like that up, for me three or four hours and my ear and attention start to go downhill. I started out with "vienna sausage fingers", you know, where your hands just aren't listening to your brain. And of course the first tune is 90 miles an hour!... Once I got warmed up I think my best stuff in the next three hours. I did catch a break for a couple songs tracking dobro, but I'd recommend trying to keep your session time down to a few consecutive hours at most for the best performance. I know by hour 6 I was starting to lose my edge! Yeah,those @$*# NS-10's are still popular, the crappy bass-light tone is assumed to give an engineer the window to do a mix that should sound better on better systems, and for years they were in every studio so everybody got used to what they sounded like. I have a pair in my studio I stripped out of our old band bus when we wrecked it, I use them to reference the midrange in a mix, and then go back to my much smoother Events.
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 9:43 am
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I've never liked recording. Until recently with studio technology, my SB PIII always had "too much pedal noise", and I remember piling foam rubber over the amp in another room, and all kinds of other crap.
Live recording of bands has yielded a lot of good "old" stuff I came across years later. The best was when I didn't know I was even being recorded.
Lately, Pod technology has made it a LOT better. I can hear what I want to hear, let them have it ANY way they want it. No amp needed.
I used to just do it, take the money, and never even listen to the finished product.
Recently, there's been a revolution that might change my take on the whole thing.
I might sound like a shill for Line6, but the Podxt has the capability to go direct into my 2ghz60gig PC with a USB.
That will allow me to bring home tracks on CDRWs, record MY part in the basement, bring in a dozen tracks for the "producer", and he can pick and choose what he wants. ALso using pro tools or sound forge I can edit peaks and valleys of harmonics, as well as tuning of small sections.
I have only borrowed one so far, and heard Gary Morse's in a live situation, and I hate to say that ONE gizmo has changed it all, but it HAS changed a lot of things.
I think in earlier years the "humbling" has been from the limitations of equipment, the "time window" involved, and the general having to be in uncomfortable, unfamiliar surroundings. At least for me.
New technology might indeed be changing that.
Once DVRWs get as common as CDRWs, a lot more things will change for the better for "home studios".
Just listened for the first time to three new CD cuts I did 6 months ago. I was pleasantly surprised. Not doing it until now is just a habit I got years ago.
Things can and do change.
EJL |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 10:11 am
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| Quote: |
| But I have to say, playing steel in the recording studio is the toughest thing I have ever tried to do. Dang, but that tape can be cruel!!! Overall, considering I've been playing for less than four years, I think I did a decent job, but it was TOUGH, friends. By the end nothing was sounding in tune, my tone was harsh and piercing...ear fatigue perhaps. I know better than to blame my gear |
We all want to be impressive and show our stuff. Sometimes it's best not to try to play anything we can't play. It's very frustrating to know what you want to do and not be able to execute it to your expectations. Been there..... |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 2:01 pm
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| Overall..........I think I did a decent job |
For me, this is what stands out in your post. With my one and only experience (aside from home studio stuff) being as daunting and outright unsatisfactory (sez me) as it was, I'm really glad for you that you can at least be satisfied with a job succesfully done. I suppose I'd say 'didn't no one say it was gonna be easy'. I'd like to think that it actually will be easier next time, knowing that in the end, regardless of what it took to get there, you can get it done. I look forward to achieving that next step for myself.
Now, where's that East Village parking at? |
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Winnie Winston
From:
Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 6:00 pm
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I've done a little studio work, and it was quite a while ago. One thing I remember is never judging what you played until you hear it back-- might have been a clam to you, but it might not sound that way on playback.
Another thing is when the producer says, "that's exactly what I wanted" even though you know it was crap, accept it. Maybe ask if there's an extra track to try again. But if THEY like it... great.
Best!
JW |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 8:18 pm
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Gerald,
It sounds like your doing great.
One thing about recording is that it shows me how important and difficult the simple little things are. The most elusive thing for me, even more than intonation, is in the phrasing. I may only get to play 2 notes at some point in a song. But if I can make those 2 notes have meaning I feel like I got something.
Bob |
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Larry Miller
From:
Dothan AL,USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2003 2:28 am
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| Another thing is when the producer says, "that's exactly what I wanted" even though you know it was crap |
been there, done that! |
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Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 23 Oct 2003 3:34 am
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| Quote: |
| I have learned to do some difficult things: speak, read, and write German |
If you think that is difficult, you should try English sometimes ... 
I had a studio gig a few weeks back playing steel for an independent rock group. It was great! Mainly because whatever I did had them spellbound and starry-eyed!  And when I switched on the Rotosphere for a blues number, they about flipped.
Finding the right pentatonic scales wasn't all that easy for me (not my strong point on PSG), but the atmosphere in the studio was so positive and relaxed that I didn't feel stressed.
I insisted on re-doing a solo. They said: "We think the solo is fine, but if you want to, go ahead. We'll go get something to eat - want some pizza, too?"
On a different studio date the arranger handed me a sheet with a 16-bar steel break written out in three-part harmony in Eb. Now that was stress! 
Rainer
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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '76 Emmons D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2003 6:19 am
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Wow, thanks to all for the great replies!
Lots of great information there. I have one more overdub session this Saturday, and I will keep all of this in mind. Winnie, thanks for your words, it's great to hear from the author of the book that helped me get me started on this great journey, I will try to put your advice to good use.
Bob, you are so right, especially with Downriver as virtually NOTHING I am doing is pre-planned. Meaningful phrasing is, in my view, what makes an idea musical as opposed to being just a series of scale tones. The potential for error is pretty big, and I end up playing pretty conservatively, but if I focus on making each note count it should work out. Wish me luck, the pressure's on. Maybe I'll ask them to take that clock in the control room down... |
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