Tone controls -- anybody use them?

RB Jones · From: Burlingame, California, USA

I've been playing guitar for a while now and I have this thing about keeping the tone controls on steel or regular guitar turned completely off. I can see if you're using the new active electronics, but since old fashioned tone controls are subtractive from the sound -- they basically filter the top off the frequencies -- I never use them because I want the pure signal to get to the amp. After it gets there is another issue. Why else would we cling to the vintage pickups and old steel, wood and bakelite guitars (and pay big bucks for them) if we're going to filter out some of their tones?

Have I been missing something for the last 35 years? I don't remember ever discussing this, but I figured the forum members may have some interesting insights into such a topic and enlighten some of us as to the way they use tone controls. Keep in mind I don't own any electric musical instrument made after 1974.

RB

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

RB,
If you're not going to use the tone control, wouldn't it be better to wire direct and just bypass the tone control? Doesn't the unit require a certain amount of signal even if it's off? There was a thread on this subject the other day. I think the end result is what counts. I'd go with whatever works in the chain of effects, tone controls, whatever to make the tone better. Do you use the tone controls on your amp or processor? To me it's all there so use it.

I use mine but only for distortion settings.

[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 03 March 2003 at 04:28 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Most all tone controls operate on the "cut" principle. Whether you make these "cuts" at the guitar, in an effects unit, or at the amp, really makes no difference...as long as you're getting the sound you want.

We cling to those pickups because they are part of the "original sound" of that particular instrument. Changing the pickup, or adding controls, would change that sound. This is why so many players who love the sound of their vintage guitars only play them through vintage amps!

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

I cannot talk in technical terms, only what my ears like to hear. Personally, I prefer ANY steel guitar, (new or vintage old), to have that soft, nice nahi nahi mellow sound which only a tone control set correctly can create. JB seldom if ever plays his steel with the tone control cranked to extreme bright that I am aware of. This is partially my small beef with many pedal players who play that ear-splitting "bright" tone, if that could be termed as the proper word. Seldom have I heard a mellow pedal guitar....(just a real olde phart expressing olde fashioned thinking ... best to ignore me. ok ?)

RB Jones · From: Burlingame, California, USA

George,
Old fashioned thinking is nothing to apologize for. But do you have to soften the tone with the controls on the guitar, or is is better to do that through the amp so as to retain the full fidelity of the pickup's complex musical coloring?

RB

Gino Iorfida · From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

I've never used tone controls on a PSG, however, IF you roll off the tone knob on a 6 string (i.e. BEFORE a fuzz box etc in the signal chain), it is an effect you can't get by manipulating the tone AFTER distortion... just a thought...

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Gotta go along with George on this one. Tone controls were made to be used. I would be willing to bet my last nickle that if you asked most of the "listeners" they would prefer the more mellow "toned" steel than that shrill ear shattering PSG that is sooooo predominant.

IMO,

carl

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

Isn't that what they put all those knobs on an amp for? To take away the bad tones? Tell me that JB doesn't tweak his amp. Turning your tone knob down to me seems to restrict things.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

All the pedal steels I can think of that have tone controls also have bypass switches. I'd rather have one and not use it if I choose to, than not have one and want it once in a while.

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

RB...I guess my thoughts don't really apply here as it seems the majority of these threads pertain to the Pedal Guitar. I have never played pedal, and (possibly like Jerry), have had no burning desire to go that direction. Anyway, you did ask a question and here's my answer...I usually play my Fender Custom Triple with a Fender Deluxe Reverb (tube) amp. (I have many other steel guitars which I constantlly use also). The tone controls on the amp are usually set: Bass full on, Treble at the 12 o'clock position.
On my steel, the tone control is set around the 12:15 position. The tone I achieve is rather warm in my opinion, and ideally suited for Hawaiian music which is my specialty.

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

Carl...my thoughts precisely.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Also,

If you watch JB often, he will change the tone depending upon the nature of the song. I have done this for years.

I have seen BE throw his PU switch on his Emmons PSG,and at the same time sweep over and remove the tone cut out switch bringing the tone into the circuit and vice versa when he goes back to E9th. In other words he colors E9th differently than C6th. In essence then he has E9th full treble and C6th he will sometimes take the edge off.

Try it, you might like it.

carl

Ricky Littleton · From: Steely-Eyed Missile Man from Cocoa Beach, Florida USA

I use my tone control for special purposes such as when I use my E-Bow. I thicken the sound up a bit for a nice, soft cello-like tone. Works fine. However, most times I run in the bypass mode.

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4
Session 400 Ltd
Dan-Echo, E-Bow, Ibanez Distortion, Boss Comp./Sustain, Ibanez Auto-Wah

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I don't use the tone control on my Emmons. However, I play with a Goodrich Matchbox and utilize the tone control on it. This is an active tone control and in no ways muddies or deadens the tone.
Erv

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I have the Goodrich Matchbox with the tone control on the top also and use it on a regular basis. I cut it back usually between a quarter and a third and then set my amp to the sound I like from there. After that's done if I need a west coast (Mooney) sound I just turn it all the way on and it works great...JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

A tone control on the instrument really has two functions.
Enable a tone change very quickly because you don't have to go to your amp, where ever it is, and tweak it.
Secondly, it is typical that the EQ center frequency, width of the Q or number of notes or octaves above and below that center, and the way it peaks and dips it's slope as you add or remove frequncies, were designed by the manufacturer to be suitable for this particular instrument. So it very likely can quickly find a tonal change suitable for it's self.

And many amps aren't designed for the PSG, so the amp eq was chosen for a guitar most likely.Not a PSG. Many steel builders therefore did some of their Eq choices in relation to the amp eq.'s which were commonly being used when that PSG was made.
If it does one set of bands and the amps another then you have a greater choice for you individual sound. if they have redundant overlap of bands then I might be useless to you, unless the amp is flat.
If you like what you got use it, if not don't. Or do a Spinal Tap and run everything at 11!!

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

David, I don't know of any steel manufacturer that ran the kind of tests you're talking about to tailor their tone control. I know at Dekley we just looked at a couple of other guitars and used the same values they did. They probably did the same thing themselves.

RB Jones · From: Burlingame, California, USA

Jim,
You make a good point. My feeling, not based on any first hand facts of course, is that steel and Spanish guitar companies added tone knobs just because everybody else did and didn't put a lot thought into how the tone controls would color sound one way or another. I know that's not true of all. For example, I believe Paul Reed Smith sort of made a name for himself when he put active tone controls on his guitars that actually do more than shave off the top frequencies.

RB

Ken Williams · From: Arkansas

I don't use the tone control on a regular basis but kinda like having it there. Once in a while I may need to make a slight adjustment and I can't reach my amp without getting up or turning completely around on my seat. Not that I'm that lazy, but it may be in middle of a song.

Ken

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

RB, when did PRS start using active tone controls? And what about Strats, where the neck and middle pickups each have their own tone knob, but the bridge(lead)pickup is wired straight through to the volume control?
And, as an aside, do y'all find it annoying when a lead guitar player reaches for a knob on his guitar, after every phrase, lick, whatever? Why do they do this?

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

RB, when did PRS start using active tone controls? And what about Strats, where the neck and middle pickups each have their own tone knob, but the bridge(lead)pickup is wired straight through to the volume control?
And, as an aside, do y'all find it annoying when a lead guitar player reaches for a knob on his guitar, after every phrase, lick, whatever? Why do they do this?

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

Steve,
Them guitar players are trying to get that fat sound the steelers get! The guitar player in our band is forever doing that and as a result he drops his pick about a dozen times a night.

David Doggett · Posted 4 Mar 2003 2:34 pm

This is drifting a little from the original question, but there are a several reasons why George and others may sometimes here some people playing too "bright". In a small quiet group, a more mellow tone with more low end and less high end may sound best. But the bigger and louder a group is, especially with loud bass and drums, the more high end you need to cut through and be heard. Adding more bass just adds a muddy rumble to the group sound and doesn't help you get heard. Some people learn these bright settings and simply don't change them when they play with smaller quieter settings and venues that would allow them to use a more mellow tone.

Also, it seems studio mixers like a bright steel sound. And it's gonna come out that way anyhow through car radio speakers and cheap home stereos.

Another problem is that as you age you lose hearing, and this occurs first in the high frequencies. Living around loud music (even through earphones) accelerates the process. If you are an old rocker (and sound techs. frequently are) your high hearing is very likely impaired. These guys will turn up the highs until it sounds right for them. Younger or less damaged listeners will then hear a sound that is way too bright for them.

Finally, just increasing the volume will cause our ears to hear the highs getting too loud first, even if the EQ has not really changed. You can prove this easily on a good home stereo or a PA. Without changing the EQ, at higher volumes the highs will begin to hurt. With loud bass you may feel it in your chest (your lungs are actually feeling the pressure changes), but it wont hurt your ears.

So for all these reasons when old pros start turning up the volume, watch out. You may be in for a very bright experience.

Just my humble observations.

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

David...I appreciate what you said about high volume cutting through. About 10 years ago, our line dance group thought it would be nice to dance to a live band instead of records. We boogied off to this c/w night club which was absolutely packed. We were seated near the stage and the volume was overwhelming, so much so, the musicians had cotton stuffed in their ears! Worse, I was seated almost directly below the pedal steel guitarists amp. He had that thing on shrill...no concern about "tone" at all...and he wore cotton in his ears. I came out of there with a ringing in my ears which has never left me...it's called tinitus. Uncurrable. The worst part of it all...I hear a constant Ab ! Why couldn't it have been A-440 ? ... at least, then I'd have a built-in tuner.

RB Jones · From: Burlingame, California, USA

Stephen,

Goes to show I probably don't know what I'm talking about. I had assumed Paul Reed Smith had active pickups on his guitars.

RB

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