The pedal steel player from the old Marshall Tucker Band

Bob Smith · From: Allentown, New Jersey, USA

Thinking back to the great 70s , how would some of you seasoned players rate Toy Caldwells steel playing from those days?? Im a kinda new steel player, but those steel solos from them records(like Fire on the Mountain) are burned into my memory and still sound great to me. Anyway,I havent seen his name mentioned on here and just wonder what someone else might think about this. Bob

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Good feel but horribly out of tune.

BobG · From: Holmdel, NJ

Uh Oh! I sense a tasteless "Jerry joke" looming in the wings!

[This message was edited by BobG on 06 August 2002 at 05:59 PM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I tend to compare with JDCall with Pure Prarie League, Rusty Young with Poco, Buddy Cage with NRPS, and the west coast guys like Sneaky Pete and JayDee. Trust me, Toy Caldwell was not in a league with any of these players. Pretty good guitar player -- played with his bare fingers and had really good touch. I'll have to concur with Jim's observation on his steel playing, however.
no, I won't bite on the Jerry thing

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Bobby Boggs, didn't you and Mr. Bagwell play some with Toy? Where'd he learn to play? And how many real good players' first exposure was through Toy Caldwell or Jerry Garcia?

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Stephen
I'm not sure if Mike Bagwell ever played with Toy or not.It's likely he jammed with him at some point.As for where he learned to play? I never thought to ask.I just assumed he picked it up on his own.I posted the following last April.

Before we start a war let me say this.I knew Toy pretty
well.When in town.He used to come and jam (Guitar) with the band
I played with at the time.This was in 77 I think.He being famous
gave him the opportunity to produce a lot of local folks trying to get
a record deal.He used me on steel on a lot of these things.

My point here. Toy knew he was not a great steel player.But he
dug great steel playing.He was always asking have you heard
Emmons do this? Or have you heard that Franklin guy play
that?However he knew what he did worked well enough to sell MTB
records.And he had the money to prove it.But I
think mostly Toy just enjoyed trying to play steel.Every time I made
a crack about his playing he would just pull out his wallet and
laugh.To say Toy was not the worrying kind would be an under
statement.BTW as a producer he never asked me to play like
him.When he wanted that sound he played it himself.

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 06 August 2002 at 11:10 PM.]

Bob Smith · From: Allentown, New Jersey, USA

Hey thanks for the replys fellas! I sorta felt some of these answers comin i guess. Dont think its as ridiculous as Jerry though! Anyway I Think a "good feel" is just as powerful as precision when it comes to catching the ears of the general public.Hey i really dug the steel playing on Charlie Rich records, but dont have a clue who that might have been, Im sure some of you guys know.Who was it anyway?? Thankyou Bob

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Pete Drake did some pickin' for Charlie Rich (I think).

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn Suchan www.kevinfowler.com

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I listened to a ton of MTB back in the 70's.
I like all the songs with steel. "Low Down Ways" comes to mind at the moment. All the players Larry mentioned above are my first influences, specifically New Riders, MTB, and Pure Prarie League. I didn't know it was Jerry on Teach untill later on. I heard "Teach" on the way in to work this morning and it sounded as excellent to me as it ever did. I don't know why anyone thinks it sounds out of tune? It's dead on.
I think you guys need to go back and listen to Toy and Jerry again. They played steel on alot of records, many of which sold millions of copies.
If you want to hear out of tune listen to the Virginia Creeper on Commander Codys early record. I'll give you that one.

Kenny Dail · From: Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.

An item of interest here. I never met him and even though he had a tuning problem with "Fire on the Mountain" I was drawn to his style of playing. I believe somewhere about that time it was mentioned his instrument of choice was a "Marlen".

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Roger Miller · From: Cedar Falls, Ia.

I have a copy of Toy's solo album and I tell you the band was great and in tune, and Toy may have been in tune, maybe used a different tuner. Night Life was a killer but the guitar had to be 1/4 step off pitch. If you can stand it, sounded great, right?

Roger Miller · From: Cedar Falls, Ia.

Was this suppose to be about Toys' steeler or his tuning problem, I guess If it doesn't bother him then there is no problem. RIGHT?

Bob Smith · From: Allentown, New Jersey, USA

Thats right!Roger, Maybe its safe to say he just wasnt a politicaly correct steel player.Darn politics even sneaks it way into the music scene! Oh well Beautiful day in NJ today Bob

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

I'm with Pete on this one. I didn't listen to the MTB much, if at all, but I recall Toy playing some steel on the "Hank Williams Junior and Friends" album way back when, and I don't recall anything sounding out of tune. Best album Hank II ever did, I always thought. (And I still like to hear "Teach" too.....)

But yeah, I'm afraid the ol' "Creeper" was out of tune on that first CC&TLPA album. I think (memories of a thread a couple of yers ago) his name was Steve Davis, and I recall someone saying they heard him in a club setting at some point post-Cody and he was not sounding bad at all. I got all the old Cody stuff on cd, and love to listen to it, but not the first one so much.

Rick Garrett · From: Tyler, Texas

Yall made me plug in some MTB and give it another close listen. Yes Toy does sound a wee bit out of tune on Fire on the Mountain BUT, that coupled with his tone gives that song a classic recognizable sound that is unforgetable. Listen to "Bob my Blues Away" on the same cd and it'll make ya cry. great steel sounds that take me back to when I was a kid.

Rick Garrett

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

"Bob away my Blues" is a great tune!
"See You Later, I'm gone" is another good Tucker Band steel tune.

Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

Re: BOB
Bob, I believe that Pete Drake was the steel player on most of Charlie Rich's hit records such as "Behind Closed Doors", however I played steel on one of his lesser known albums;cut and released out of Memphis. I don't remember the name of the album but I
remember that it had some old country standards such as Hank Williams'"Half as Much". I don't know if this will help or confuse.
sincerely,
W.C.

Bob Smith · From: Allentown, New Jersey, USA

Thankyou Wayne, Charlie Rich was my favorite country cat when I around 18 yrs old, long time ago. That steel playin on those records brings on goose bumps when i hear it to this day.Dont know if it is my imagination but it seems all the steel playin from those days had a different twist to it than the stuff you hear on the radio today.Hey thats great that you played with Charlie too!! Wayne thanks again for the answers Bob

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Does the MTB carry a steel player today?

They're in town here (SW FL) tomorrow
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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John Butler · From: Warrior River, Alabama, USA

As to Bob's ? about Charlie Rich records. Jim Vest played a good many of them.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

My band opened for MTB last Friday in Wisconsin. No steel. I offered to play Fire On The Mountain with them, but kinda got some shrugs so I packed up when we were done. I've played that song hundreds of times on steel. They played it but skipped the intro. They were very good and entertaining, though and a friendly bunch of guys.
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

John Larson · From: Pennsyltucky, USA

"Fire on the Mountain" without steel say it ain't so!
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Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous; praise is meet for the upright. Give praise to the Lord with the harp, chant unto Him with the ten-stringed psaltery. Sing unto Him a new song, chant well unto Him with jubilation. For the word of the Lord is true, and all His works are in faithfulness. The Lord loveth mercy and judgement; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord.
- Psalm 33:1-5

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Michael, too bad the MTB didn't elect for you to at least play the intro. I guess they can get away with it and probably today's audiences don't know the difference anyway.

A bit aside of topic, but our bunch wants to do Fire occasionally. The guitar player wants to start the song with the vocal "left my family". I said what? You have a steel guitar player sitting over here that knows the entire song.
It's one of the first songs I learned on pedal steel back in the 70s. I worked on it pretty hard and I was insulted that they didn't care enough about the song to get the intro and changes down right.

They just dabble at it so I refused to play along and went and sat down. I told them when you learn the damn song, I'll come up play it with you. It's just a jam among musicians so no audience to pander to.

Of course you don't have to have the steel, but why not when there's one right there beside you. Frustrating, to say the least.😩

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

Btw, I don't want to diss the band in any way shape or form. They put on a really fine show and hearing Doug Gray singing their classics brought back a lot of great memories. Local Wisconsin lad and Voice finalist Chris Kroeze got up sang Can't You See and killed it!
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

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