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Topic: H. Williams & L. Frizzell's vintage steel sound? |
Wayne Carver
From: Martinez, Georgia, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2003 7:54 pm
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I asked this guestion under "Steel Players" and never got an answer other than who the players were but why do the steels on these recordings sound different than modern steels? I can't put it in words but it's more of a moan. It is evident on Lefty's "You Can Go Your Own Way Now". The single notes and the chords have this same sound. Maybe it's overdrive but no distortion. I'm relatively new to electric instruments so all the sound discription adjectives are wierd to me i.e. warm, fuzzy, etc. I'm a Duanne Eddy fan so I know what twang is at least. |
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Alvin Blaine
From: Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2003 11:03 pm
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It has alot to do with the guitar and amp. Most amps in those days were maybe 15-20 watts with a ten or twelve inch speaker and when you realy jump on it they moan and growl.
Now most of the time those low power amps were fine in the early days, because the steel player was the only non-acoustic instrument on stage. Then the guitar player started to use an amp on stage, then they added drums, then the bass players started plugging in, and things just kept getting louder and louder.
For a while in the mid 1940's till the early '50s most amps didn't keep up with the volume that bands were playing at.Then companies like Fender, Standell, Gibson, and others started make bigger and bigger amps.
Some great stuff to listen to from that era is The BOB Wills And The Texas Playboys "Tiffany Transcriptions" with Herb Remington on steel and Junior Barnard on guitar. They sound like they had the amps cranked on some of this stuff trying to cut though a ten piece band. The steel and guitar on these recordings not only moan they growl and bark.
By the way Junior Barnard is one of my all time favorite six string guitar players. |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 1 Apr 2003 11:32 pm
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Alvin is correct, and I might add these reasons for why it sounds different:
- 40's, 50's & 60's it was single coil PU's and tube amps with minimal if no effects, today it's often humbucker PU's with powerful solid state amps ( or directly to the board ) with various type of effects, chorus, reverb, etc.
Another very important thing is the recording method and equipment. Like amps, all studio gear back in the old days were tube powered and songs were cut live with minimum or no overdubs. All this combined gives a very different feel and sound compared to most of today's recordings. Of course you can't ignore musicianship and changes in playing styles, but the equipment and recording methods have a lot to do with it. |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 2 Apr 2003 12:28 am
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Perhaps there is a flipside to this that I am unaware of, but I could never understand why any serious musician would ever want to plug directly into the board. I played a New Years show down at one of the hotels...the sound guy could not see why the heck I would want to mike my amp. (And with the kind of music they play down in Waikiki these days, you know the kind of stuff he was familiar with) He said, well the board's right there, why the h-ll don't you plug in? I said I felt my amp would sound better. He gave me a look like, geez what a stuck up little son-of-a-gun you are.
There is one album on which Jerry Byrd was pressured to plug into the board...so he did... and to this day it is one album he cannot stand.*I think it sounds pretty darn good though!
*related to me by Alan Akaka |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 2 Apr 2003 1:56 am
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Jeff, I'm on the same lines with you on that, but believe me many players do go straight into the board, even the top dogs. And back in the old days when studio gear was all tube powered, it actually sounded really good. Jazz guitar great Johnny Smith made many of his Roost-albums by plugging straight into the board and his tone on those records is absolutely my favorite jazz guitar tone; buttery, full bodied, bright and warm all at the same time. Harold Bradley often plugged a six string bass to the board too. And believe it or not, in the 40's and 50's in Grand Ole Opry, steel players most of the times plugged straight into the PA-system. |
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Chris DeBarge
From: Boston, Mass
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Posted 2 Apr 2003 4:43 am
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Another thing to chew on about the old sound: Bigger strings. |
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Wayne Carver
From: Martinez, Georgia, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2003 5:21 am
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Thanks for the replies. I'll have to check out "Tiffany Transcriptions".
Why would bigger strings make a difference? |
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Jesse Pearson
From: San Diego , CA
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Posted 2 Apr 2003 7:36 am
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Wanye, listen to Stevie Ray Vaughn's "Tin Pan Alley", he used big strings and hipped alot of younger players to their great, full bodied sound. I am starting to like the thinner string sound on steel, though I still go for the heaviest strings I can on steel.
One of the best bass sounds I ever heard live, was Robert Cousins who played with Robert Cray. Cousins would go direct thru the board and also mike an 18" speaker at the same time. |
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Andy Alford
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Posted 2 Apr 2003 2:14 pm
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The over use of reverb makes the steel player sound like he needs to head for the ER.I still can not understand why someone would not want to learn to play well.The reverb is often used to cover up poor playing.We could learn from the past greats.They could play without all we depend on today.Try playing without or with less reverb and see how you like it.People get tired of hearing 9 out of 10 players sounding like the reverb has their steels ready for take off.Behind to much reverb poor skills often are living.Learn to play. |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 2 Apr 2003 2:27 pm
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I agree Andy! I can't remember specifically where I read it... but I do remember Keoki Lake bringing up the fact that some of the best steel music he's ever heard was recorded sans reverb--also, that we could all benefit from practicing without it. I'll never forget that bit of wisdom (praise be to the forum...and Keoki!) and try my best to adhere to it. |
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