Tunings question

Carter York · From: Austin, TX [Windsor Park]

Hey y'all,

Can someone elaborate on the following:

I want to make sounds similar to those of Jimmy Day, but I play non-pedal. Is my best bet to use tunings like E13, C6, A6, etc, and try to figure out some of his licks, etc. Or can I use a 'pedalsteel' tuning, like his E9? IOW, would the E9 make his sound 'more accessible', or is that tuning based soley on the mechanical possibilities of the pedal steel? Thanks for any input!

Carter

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Carter,

No dissrespect, but you could NOT have picked a player more difficult to emulate. JD is considered by many to be "Mr Soul".

And MUCH of that soul was created using pedals. While I will not go so far as to say it can't be done without pedals, I WILL say it is next to impossible.

A non pedal guitar just does not have the luxury of the "moving tone" that so typifies a PSG. And JD was one of the all time masters at it. IN fact when it comes to "heart", he probably WAS the master.

But good luck and may Jesus bless you in your quests. God rest JD's soul.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 26 March 2003 at 01:35 PM.]

Carter York · From: Austin, TX [Windsor Park]

Thank you, Carl, and no wonder I admire his playing as much as I do! I would never think I could sound like JD on a non-pedal, I understand his use of pedals is integral to his sound, but in trying to 'fake' it on a non-pedal, would one use a non-pedal tuning, or a pedal tuning? Surely some non-pedal players try to cop a lick here and there...that's my goal. I appreciate your reply.
Carter

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Carter,

I can only speak for myself. And there is no way I could even begin to emulate JD without pedals. The following is the reason why.

When pedals were evolving as we know them today, there was a player by the name of Walter Haynes that is atttibuted with developing a style we refer to as "squeezing" the pedal(s). And he did one fantastic job at it I might add.

This squeezing action caused a real "feeling" to enter our musical genre'. Now as good as Walter was, NO body did it like Jimmy Day. In fact his squeezing was sooooo good and soo from his soul that it became his signture around the world.

Even the greatest player who ever lived, Buddy Emmons, was in awe of JD's "feeling" whilst using the pedals.

As such, MOST of the sounds one hears is from this method of playing a steel guitar and it was Jimmy's mastery of milking the pedals that is responsible (IMO) for what we attribute to Jimmy's soul.

I said all the above to say, IF one were to try this on a non pedal guitar and tuned it to E9th, I simply do not know how one could even begin to emulate it.

Again, I am NOT saying it could not be done. I just simply do not know how one would go about doing it.

But then who knows

Talents coming from
God often defy man's logic. So go for it my friend,

carl

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Can't one play ANY note and/or ANY lick on ANY steel guitar regardless of the tuning selected?
It's really a matter of "convenience" tho' or "ease" that makes one tuning "better" over another. "Speed" and "grouping of notes" is a factor to cope with. One is dealing with a number of factors that the "original picker" has going for him. Any imitation, with or without pedals and not knowing all of the ins and outs, most likely will sound like a POOR IMITATION at best.
If ANYONE can "milk" a pedal change for all it's worth, I DO BELIEVE ole John Huhey
is the current master. IMHO.

John Kavanagh · From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada * R.I.P.

I'm no expert, but I think E13 is better than E9 on a lapsteel if you want to emulate some pedal sounds. (It's not so useful to have the b and c# on separate strings if you can use a pedal to yank the b up to c#.)

You can get some of the pedal licks by using an E13 tuning and pulling strings or by picking and then sliding into a slanted position. Part of the problem is that bending a whole-tone up is a very characteristic pedalsteel sound and that's hard with the heavy guages that sound best on most lap steels.

Going from E to A, for instance: on an E13 tuning you can grip g# b e, then switch to g# c# e and bend the g# up to a. On a pedal guitar, you'd bend the b to c# as well. You can do this on a lap guitar, but it's quite a pull, awkward if the string spacing is narrow.

Pulling one string a halftone and the other a tone at the same time and getting it in tune is not something I've ever been able to feel good about trying, but sometimetimes you can combine bends and slants.

An E13 tuning you might try is deg#bc#'e'g#'f#'. There are a lot of chord changes possible by using grips and bending one string up a halfstep. If I had 10 strings I'd add a B on the bottom and a low f# between d and e.

I use a D13, the same thing down a tone, an idea I stole from b0b.

[This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 28 March 2003 at 11:57 AM.]

Joe Kaufman · From: Lewiston, Idaho

I've just started using the E13 tuning John suggested a little while ago (I also stole the idea from b0b) and I feel it is probibly the best choice, not really for "faking" E9th pedal licks, but more like interjecting some of the same "feeling". This tuning in no way can replicate a pedal E9, but since you want "sounds similar to", I think its your best bet.

This is an example of what I mean: It's not JD (its part of the tag Bruce Bouton played for "HWY 40 blues", and the only thing I feel comfortable tabbing out without a guitar nearby)



f#---------7-------------------


g#-----------------------------


e--------7----7----------7~~5--


c#--5/7----------7\5-----7~~5--


b---------------------5--------


g#-----------------------------


e------------------------------


e------------------------------

I won't say you will get all that you want from this tuning, but I don't think you'll find a better one.
Good luck!

basilh · From: United Kingdom

I think that the time you spend TRYING to emulate the JD pedal steel licks on a non pedal guitar, could be better spent....
you just won't get near enough to be able to recognise the licks as JD's.

One important factor you can't get is the combination of pedal changes whilst using the volume pedal for expression.

Think about this, If you were already an excelent PEDAL steel player wishing to sound like JD, with a few years studying and a lot of luck you just may become a recognisable copy.
I'm sorry but in my opinion it really is "Wishful Thinking" on a non pedal guitar
Baz
www.waikiki-islanders.com

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