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Topic: Tunings with diminished chords in them |
Don McClellan
From:
California/Thailand
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Posted 5 Dec 2006 10:00 am |
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Who else uses a full 4 note diminished chord in their tuning?
Let me try to explain something that's very cool if you don't know this already. A diminished chord is 4 different non-root (3 note) dominant 7th chords grouped together as well as, of course, being a very useful diminished chord. The diminished chord is made of 4 notes. On my steel the notes are F#, D#, C, and A. Any combination of 3 of these 4 notes (and there are 4 combinations) is the 3rd, 5th and b7th chord tones of a non-existing and unnecessary root note which happens to be the note found 1/2 step below the note you left out of the 4 dim chord notes when you chose a group of 3 of them. This is simpler than I'm making it sound. But this is part of what makes the tuning I'm using so full of chords. Also the maj7 note on top is very useful against the different dominant chords this tuning offers. Give it a try.
The Christmas songs I posted in another thread were all done with this 8 string tuning using no bar slants. The reason there are no slants is because this tuning makes it virtually unnecessary to slant the bar unless you want to. Hi to Lo : Bb, D#, B, G#, F#, D#, C, A
Thanks, Don[This message was edited by Don McClellan on 05 December 2006 at 10:02 AM.] |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 5 Dec 2006 12:13 pm
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Your 4 note diminished is also a nice rootless b9 chord, the root being a 1/2 step down from any of the 4 notes.
Now what about tunings with a half diminished?[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 05 December 2006 at 12:14 PM.] |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 5 Dec 2006 12:55 pm
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Half-diminished?
F#9 for one. I think it's an excellent tuning. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2006 3:37 pm
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| Leavitt has dim. on it. |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 5 Dec 2006 7:50 pm
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Jeff,
Don's tuning has a half diminished in it.
Cmin7b5 or C half diminshed C Eb Gb Bb
It's easier to see if you write out the tuning like this (lo to hi)
A C Eb Gb Ab B Eb Bb
E13 (lo to hi)
E G# D F# G# B C# E
has G#min7b5 G# B D F#
Also the Leavitt tuning C# E G Bb C D
Emin7b5
Any other tuning with a dominant ninth in it will also have the min7b5. The 3, 5, b7 and 9 are the root, b3, b5, b7 of a min7b5.
These are also called min6 chords, especially in older swing tunes.
E9 E G# B D F#
G#min7b5 (half dim) G# B D F#
Bmin6 B D F# G#
Fred
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Rich Gibson
From:
Pittsburgh Pa.
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Posted 5 Dec 2006 10:43 pm
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I've been using low to hi:
Bb C# C E G A C E This gives me the full diminished 7(1 b3 b5 bb7)On strings 8,7,5&4- some other cool stuff too.
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Mike Ihde
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 5 Dec 2006 10:54 pm
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Don,
The bottom 5 strings of your tuning is exactly like the bottom 5 of the Leavitt tuning Low to Hi, C#, E, G, Bb, C and D. He tuned the top 2 strings whole tones away from the 3rd (C, D, E)
You've got the right idea about dim. chords and Dom 7 b9 chords. They're interchangable. On the Leavitt Tuning, there is NO chord that can't be played in at least 3 notes, many with 4 and 5 notes and you never have to use a slant.
You might want to check out my CD and TAB book. I'm sure you could adapt it to your tuning quite easily and then have a lot of material to play. http://pedalsteelmusic.com/music/mikeihde.html
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2006 12:16 am
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| I believe that Joaqin Murphey's C6 tuning has a half diminished in it. hi-lo G-E-C-A-G-E-C#-B. The B is a 20 gage string a hwhole step above the A. |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 6 Dec 2006 4:38 pm
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Don,
I thought the tuning you used for the Christmas tune was Bb, C#, E, G, A, C, E, B.
??
Drew
------------------
Drew Howard - website - Red guitars sound better!
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Don McClellan
From:
California/Thailand
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Posted 6 Dec 2006 5:39 pm
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| Drew, I use B6th but I tend to talk about it as C6th thinking that might be easier for most people to understand. Maybe I'm wrong, but yes, mine is in B. [This message was edited by Don McClellan on 06 December 2006 at 05:42 PM.] |
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John Bushouse
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Posted 6 Dec 2006 8:41 pm
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| Mike, if you were using Leavitt tuning on a 7-string, what would you add to C# E G Bb C D? |
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Mike Ihde
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 8 Dec 2006 12:17 am
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| A low C or a lower Eb would be nice to give you some solid roots. The C would give you a root for the C or C9 chord and the Eb would give you an Eb major 6/7 chord. |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2006 12:57 am
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On a 6th tuned Steel the half-dim scale is located in the box 6 and 8 frets up from the same-root 6th chord (ie in the box bV6 and bVI6 from root 6th chord); With a signature non-root half-dim chord on the 6th fret of that box. There's also an incidental non-root half-dim chord one fret up from the same-root 6th chord (ie at the bII6 fret). (bV6 and bII6 = Ihalf.dim.).
Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 09 December 2006 at 07:52 AM.] |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2006 11:45 pm
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| I just remembered that I've read somewhere that Leon McAulliffe tuned one of his necks to a full diminished chord. Maybe in Andy Volk's book. Perhaps an old Dobro primer called, "The Dobro Book." |
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Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Jan 2007 8:23 pm
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This question is for Mike or Don or anyone who knows the answer. I realize that it wouldn't be a challenge to play the chords to Night Life using the Leavitt tuning or Don's, but what about those beautiful inversions which have such a wide spread?
Example: the very first chord in the intro which comes after the three lead-in notes. Is that possible with either tuning without adding extra, low, strings??? I'm not trying to be silly or inflammatory; I know that some unique inversions would have to be impossible on lap steel tunings, but I was just wondering if you had any insights into this style?
Thanks! ~~W.C.~~ |
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