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Topic: Boutique Amps for Steel |
Eric Jaeger
From:
Oakland, California, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2006 9:38 am |
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OK, another thread started this idea, but I'm curious. Has anybody tried any of the "new wave" boutique amps (Victoria, Dr.Z, Matchless, Rivera, Chicago Blues, Carr, the new HiWatt, Voodoo, etc etc) with a PSG? Pure curiosity, plus the fact that they show up used from time to time at only moderately "insane"  prices. I've played six string through a few, been impressed, but never steel.
So, what are your experiences? I would think at least a few, like the Victoria Double Deluxe, would have promise.
Like to hear your stories.
-eric |
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Mike Fried
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2006 10:32 am
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Eric, some of those amps are much better suited to PSG than others. I used to work for Matchless and I wasn't at all impressed with their performance as steel guitar amps, as awesome as they are for guitar. On the other hand, the Victoria tweed designs are quite good for a vintage steel sound.
As a rule, I'd say the amps built on the "English" model (mainly Vox) such as the Matchless and Bad Cat are not as good for steel as the "American" model amps (mainly Fender clones) such as the Victoria and Kendrick, and blackface designs like the Allen. Design issues such as the use/lack of negative feedback in the output circuit, class of power amp operation, tone circuit design, and speakers and tube-types used will all dictate how well an amp will work in a given application.
Of course, only you can say whether it's the sound you want, but I'd certainly try a PSG through any of those amps before I bought it. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Oct 2006 11:05 am
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Mike covers it pretty well. I'd say that boutique amps fall into three categories---clones of classic amps but with top shelf parts, hybrids of classic amps--one channel being classic amp A, the other channel being amp B (or a clone of a favorite amp but with features the classic didn't have such as channel switching, eg.) and original desgns (although i'm drawing a blank on any examples of anything truly new under the sun.)
It all comes down to what your steeling needs are. I have a few fantastic amps but lately my default amp is a Steel King---it sounds great and it will never come up short for headroom & power.
I have a few Fender SF tube amps but for boutique, I have a Tone King Comet 40B--a 2 x 12" 4 6V6 40 watt two channel amp. One channel is black face tone, the other is tweedy. Gorgeous sounding amp for when I know that I won't mind a bit of grind.
Another great amp is a Bruno. I have had less luck (in rehearsal studios) dialing in my sound with a Matchless Chieftan.
For sure, you need to try before you buy.
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Gibson Hartwell
From:
Missoula, Montana, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2006 12:42 pm
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I have a Carr Slant 6V which doesn't sound good at all with the psg.
I do use the Carr for non-pedal and it works extremely well for that. But 6v6 tubes just break up pretty fast naturally, so there is definately some grit in there. |
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Greg Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 17 Oct 2006 1:01 pm
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For a traditional Clean Tone, I'd say Bruno
Cowtipper 90, Sweeter Topend than a Twin, And even Tighter bass, A Perfected BF Circuit.
The Problem with Matchless amps for Steel
they give up their goods real quick, plus the Top Boost EQ (Vox)Just doesn't sound as good as a BF Circuit, Those Cons for Steel are a Tele or Strat players dream.
A trick you can do with A Matchless amp is Just use the Power Amp part of the Effects Loop, I Run a Boogie Pre Amp into Just the Power section, Its really nice, (Cathode Bias) Blackface amp in a way.
Matchless Did come out with a model called the Avenger, That may be killer for a steel,
the preamp sounds way more BF than the C30 Model, (VOX)
I agree though with JON , Bruno would be
killer,
Interesting, I like my tweed Super more than the Matchless for Steel, but Still Not as much as the old BF Circuit, Something about that Circuit that works for that clear sweet tone. Both the Tweed and the Matchless have more Mids, Which is great for guitar but
to nasel for steel,The Mids come in handy
however when getting a slide tone, Greg |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2006 8:13 am
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| I played thru a friends Fuch's Triple 150 and it was nothing short of amazing ...The head is something like $4200, but it sounds GREAT for guitar or pedal steel ...Jim |
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Greg Simmons
From:
where the buffalo (used to) roam AND the Mojave
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2006 3:47 pm
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| Both my Holland Little Jimi at 30 watts and my son's monstrous Bogner Uberschall sound great for steel. The Bogner looks WAY out of context with its two 4x12 cabinets, but is very rich sounding. The Holland is purely one of the best amps ever made, and is probably what I will use as a primary studio amp. Sad that they were put out of business, but hopefully Mike will be back with something new. [This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 20 October 2006 at 06:12 AM.] |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 19 Oct 2006 4:22 pm
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| I've been thinking Dumble lately??? |
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Jerry Miller
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Posted 19 Oct 2006 6:00 pm
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| I use a Carvin V3 sounds GREAT on PSG I play both Psg and 6 string and it works great for both not quite a boutique amp but sounds just as good if not better. |
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Darrell Owens
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2006 9:06 pm
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YES, Rivera is my choice for Pedal Steel. I have a Rivera Hammer 320 Stereo Tube amp. It is rack mounted and put out 160 Watts per channel. It powers two 15" JBL ext cabs also made by Rivera. For those who are looking for a lightweight amp, pass this one by. It is a real heavy-weight, but once you get it set up, it has no equal for pure tone and headroom.
I have other amps. A Webb, a Sho Bud, A Fender Twin and a Session 500. They are all sweet amps, but the Rivera is by far the favorite for a large venue or where you just feel the need to be heard.
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2006 5:13 am
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"I've been thinking Dumble lately???"
Uh, Steverino - I called the pharmacy, and your Prozac is in.
;-) |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Andy Zynda
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 20 Oct 2006 6:12 am
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I just tried my Dr Z Stang Ray with my Fender Custom T8 last weekend. (212 combo)
Yum and more Yum.
Very loud, rich and strong, with just the tinyest bit of grind.
Everything sounds good through that thing.
Best amp I ever bought.
-Andy Z- |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Oct 2006 11:23 am
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| What's the 'topology' of that Dr. Z, Andy? Fashioned after what sort of amp? |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2006 12:37 pm
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He's the info from Doc's site: http://www.drzamps.com/stangray.html
I have two Z's, a Prescription Combo and a Maz Jr. I have used the Jr in the studio for steel. Very sweet at a low volume. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2006 12:41 pm
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| PS: Don't miss Brad's soundclips! |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Posted 20 Oct 2006 3:09 pm
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| For studio work my Carr Rambler sounds fantastic. For loud gigs my Victoria 80 watt twin with an Uncle Spot Reverb unit in front of it is superb. I'd like to hear a Cowtipper and a Carr Imperial. I've used a reissue Standel on some studio work and it was great but not very loud. I've owned Kendrick, Holland and Matchless stuff but none was great for steel aplications. |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2006 3:21 pm
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My THD BiValve is the best steel amp I've ever used, but I'm going for a different sound than many steel players.
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www.tyack.com
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Eric Jaeger
From:
Oakland, California, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2006 8:27 pm
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Dan, if you don't mind,what kind of sound are you looking for with your THD?
-eric |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 9:38 am
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A lot of the time I go for a sound which involves driving the amp, not necessarily to get perceptible overdrive or distortion, but to get a fat clean sound. And I play a lot of music in which a flat out rockin' sound works really well. The BiValve has a huge, 3 dimensional sound, especially if you use two different types of output tubes. I like using an old Tungsol 5881 and a new KT-88 or KT-90. A lot of steel players like a really focused, tight sound (think a twin with JBLs). The BiValve doesn't really do that, it's much rounder, 'thicker'.
Words don't do very well to describe this, so here are some examples.
This is a sample from my first album. Most of the playing sounds clean, but the solo is overdriven. It's a single take with the steel going through the same amp with no effects. The only difference between the solo and the rest of the song is about an inch of volume pedal travel. (the amp is a prototype THD amp )
One More Midnight
This next one is a sample from a Kym Tuvim album I played on. It sounds pretty much clean, but this was a THD BiValve with a little bit of power amp pushing.
Hard
This is from my latest album, pretty much just rockin'
Lean On Me
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www.tyack.com
[This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 23 October 2006 at 10:39 AM.] |
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Eric Jaeger
From:
Oakland, California, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 10:08 am
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"Fat clean sound" just about describes the tone I hear in my head too.
Nice playing. Nice solo on "One More Midnight". I wouldn't have even thought it was a steel. Nice support on "Hard", and a great band sound on "Lean on Me".
-eric |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 10:42 am
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Dan,
Nice playing with a great tone also !!....I really like the tone of that Bi-Valve .... At the lower wattage of this amp, do you find yourself going easy on the volume pedal so you don't go into overdrive to quickly, or does the amp have enough clean headroom ? .... Nice tone !!..I agree that the lead work sounded more like a six string than a pedal steel ..Jim |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 12:45 pm
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Thanks guys.
James, I do go light on the volume pedal for clean playing with this amp, either in the studio or live. The amp is plenty loud, and can get clean, but doesn't do loud and clean. If I want to play loud and clean, I take the direct out from the amp (comes after the power stage) and put it through a small transistor amp. I had been using a Steward 200 watt amp, but just bought one of those Crate Powerblock amps for $99 at Guitar Center for this purpose. My main speaker cab is stereo, so I power one of the speakers with the THD, and the other with the Crate. It's plenty loud. And way lighter than a twin with JBLs.
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www.tyack.com
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Donald Dunlavey
From:
Jonesboro, Georgia, USA
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Posted 29 Oct 2006 6:12 am
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Dan, Your clip on Midnight, Man on the solo we're talkin some serious tone. Got that gutsy just clean enough tone. Are you also a 6 string player. Don
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