Return and Send on Amp What Does It Mean?

Billy Henderson · From: Portland, AR, USA

I have no knowledge about how amplifiers work. I have an old Rickenbacker bass amp, although I am playing guitar through it, that has a RETURN and SEND input. Can some please explain how I might use it? Thanks

David Higginbotham · From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA

Billy, the return & send refers to the effects loop. You can place an external effects unit such as reverb, delay, etc.

You would use the "send" jack to the input on the effects unit and output of the effects unit to the "return" jack. This usually prevents any unwanted noise from placing the effects before the input section on the amp. Hope this helps!
Dave

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Billy, those are the preamp send (output) and preamp return (input) for the amp. The send jack on the amp would go to the input of a device like a Profex processor. Then, the output from the Profex would "return" to the return jack on the amp. Now your guitar signal will go thru the amp's preamp, out to the Profex, back into the amp, and then to the amp's power amp stage.

Hope that made sense?!?!?!

David!!! You were fast on that trigger, sorry! ha, ha!

[This message was edited by Mike Wheeler on 05 November 2006 at 08:57 AM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

To elaborate a bit -

The effects loop is really meant for time-based effects; delay, reverb, echo, chorus, flange. all of your "dirt" effects and tone-shaping systems (EQ, overdrive, fuzz, wah, distortion etc) go in between the guitar and amp.

This way the "time shift" effects generate less noise (as they don't run through the preamp) and do their thing on the fully-processed signal, rather than a low-level line signal, before it hits the power amp.

It's mostly useful if you run your amp cranked up - that's where it helps with noise reduction, primarily hiss. At low volume it really doesn't make much difference - you can plug everything in the front.

Many players and techs feel that running all the effects in front provides a more organic, "real" sound no matter what volume level, and will never use an effects loop. In fact, most "boutique" tube amps don't have them at all.

It's really something to experiment with. If you use chorus or delay, try them in the loop and see how it sounds. Whatever sounds best to you is the way to go...some effects work better in loops than others.

hope that helps.

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Another helpful feature of the send/return jack points is that, at least on some amps--Riveras for instance--the send jack serves as the output of the preamp section of the circuit, and the return jack serves as the input to the power amp section of the circuit. This allows you to isolate the preamp and power amp sections of your amp from each other for diffferent applications. For example, you can use your amp's preamp to feed into a different power amp, mixing board, etc., or, you could could use your amp as a power amp to run a different preamp.

Also, I believe that on many amps the loop send--which is the preamp out send--is half-normaled (I believe that is the correct term) to the loop return--or power amp in. This lets you play through the amp as normal, while at the same time also sending a signal out from your preamp to a mixing board, to another slaved amp, effects processors that feed out to somewhere else, etc. So, an effetcs loop can be used for much more than just giving you a second place to in insert effetcs. BTW, the effects loops on the Rivera amps are buffered, and they have a gain control for both the output/send, and the input/return, of the loop (great for chains of pedals). This adds another useful feature of being able to put a volume pedal in the loop to use as a variable gain/boost control (because of the pre/post loop gain circuit), and just using a short cable as jumper between the send and return jacks adds the pre/post loop gain circuit as yet another gain stage for more over-drive. I don't know what other amps have a buffered loop with variable gain control, but the Rivera design is quite good, and I found that it really increased the function and versatillity of what was already a very good amp. I wish I still had my Rivera.

[This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 05 November 2006 at 12:14 PM.]

Bob Knetzger · From: Kirkland, WA USA

I've just found another good use for the send/return-- it cleans up signal and simplfies pedal/effects switching.

I'm using a Line6 Roto Machine plus a Cry Baby wahwah pedal to do the Rusty Young rock organ thing. (Okay, it's not quite as "organ-ic" as my real Fender Leslie with the spinning baffle, but... thru a mono PA it's pretty dang good! No mic'ing, no extra cab and all the sound goes out the amp direct to the PA. ..but that's another topic...)

Using the pedal and effects stop box in the signal chain before the pre-amp as most guitar players would made for some problems: mismatched levels with the wah pedal in or out, weird squealy feedback at certain pedal positions and too many operations to do to switch the effects on and off; press the "hard" switch in the wah pedal to turn it on...then press the "hard " switch in the Line6 to turn it on, too, ...then press the soft switch to set/change spin speed. Reverse that to go back to "clean'" non-leslie sound. Oops..did the wah really get switched out? Can't tell by looking..?!? ugh.

Instead, I put the wah pedal and LIne6 in its own effects loop using the Steel King's send/return funtion and leave them both ON all the time. I just hit the FSK footswitch and instantly switch between the two sounds (and I get a visual LED indicator so I know when it's ON).

Also, the sound quality is greatly cleaned up. Levels are more even, less distortion and the wah squeal PA feedback is completely eliminated.

Ah...

[This message was edited by Bob Knetzger on 05 November 2006 at 12:10 PM.]

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