Peavey Primer

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I'm wondering if any one can post a "short list" of Peavey amps that are used primarily for steel. I'd just like to educate myself, and I know basically squat about Peavey except their 6-string guitar line, which isn't usually considered top-of-the-line stuff. Tube amps I'm pretty conversant in, but SS amps are somewhat foreign as they're not really huge factors in the 6-string world except as practice amps...so I'm trying to figure out what i is that makes them so widespread in the steel arena. The only thing I can figure is the SS tendancy to maintain high headroom.

Anyway, I'm just curious what the models/options are from a knowledge-base standpoint - I haven't lost my marbles and decided to go buy one...so no sales pitches, just data, please.

;-)

Dyke Corson · From: Fairmount, IL USA

Session 400
LTD
Vegas 400
Nashville 400
Session 400 Limited
Session 400 Wedge
Session 500
Nashville 1000
Session 2000
Nashville 112
Also used for steel:
Renown w/15"
Jazz Classic (similar to Nashville)

[This message was edited by Dyke Corson on 09 October 2006 at 02:48 PM.]

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The old "Peavey is junk" mentality is long gone. Peavey makes some very good high end equipment - used by name rockers, jazz, R&B, Rap and Country.

I guess if you are a must have "Fender Tube Amp" then anything else is "junk".

Back in the 70's when I was in Nashville and doing amp repair, no one would admit they were using Peavey. It was lead guitar pickers (and most steelers) were using Fender Twin Reverbs and bass pickers were using Ampeg B15N amps. Today its' totally different.

John Fabian · From: Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.

Dyke has listed all of the Peavey steel amps made. The currently available new steel guitar specific designed amplifiers from Peavey are the Nashville 112 and the Nashville 1000

Peavey tends to ranks high with steel guitarists for a number of reasons:
1 Best bang for the buck
2 R & D using top level steel guitarists and engineers
3 A proven willingness to listen (even eventually in some cases

)
4 A proven, longtime commitment to the steel guitar market
5 Great customer support
6 Strong dealer network

The Nashville 112 is a result of these and many other reasons. Peavey is already working on the next generation. Wait 'til you see it.

[This message was edited by John Fabian on 08 October 2006 at 04:08 AM.]

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I have an "Austin 400" that works pretty well, though I want to recap it. It's designed to be a dual-duty amp for electric and acoustic, with two tweety horns for the "acoustic" channel. Disconnect them, and you have a typical 210-watt Peavey clean channel with the mid-shift control. I think they also made a "Reno" amp with the 210 watt power amp, but I don't know the details.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I was never into the "junk" mentality - I always thought Peavey brought decent-quality amps to the masses at a good price. their guitar amps, as a rule, are still not considered top-ine. They ARE durable, and a lot of guys take them on the road because they are decent sounding (if not great), cheap, and easily replaced. I've used the Classic lines many times, and found them to be OK, but not in the same league as Fender or Marshall...or even Ampeg. They always seemed kind of along the Crate-type: popular with intermediate players who aren't dialed in to tone yet.

It's nice to know they've don such a great job of dedicating work to steel amps. I just was confused by the name/numbering, which seems to have no relation to power, speaker complement or anything else. Dykes list is nice, but what about power/speakers?

Part of my reason for asking is I can't go into a music store in L.A. and find info on Peavey steel amps - they don't exist here, unless some players use them. the only guys I've seen play live have used Fenders, except for Sneaky Pete in the old days with his two Session 500's, which I admit sounded pretty darned good with a Fender 400. As I've said before, I'm very happy with my Vibroverb and Pro Reverb, but i's good to know what else is out there - and I've always been an amp guy(you should see this place...dang things are everywhere!).

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 08 October 2006 at 08:02 AM.]

Roger Kelly · From: Bristol,Tennessee

John Fabian · From: Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.

All the steel amps except the 1000, 2000,and 112 are 200+ Watts into 4 Ohms. The 1000 and 2000 are 300 Watts and the 112 is rated at 80. while some of the earlier models used JBL most of these amplifiers all use Peavey Black Widow speakers. The 112 uses a specially voiced Peavey Blue Marvel Speaker which is more efficient than the Black Widow series and therefor delivers a surprisingly high SPL for a "lower" wattage offering. You could try these out at Steel Guitars of North County.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Roger, I don't doubt that - I was just referring to the image Peavey seems to have around the six-string community. Generally, You've got the tier of Fender, Marshall, Mesa, Soldano, Matchless, Bad Cat, Top Hat and other boutique makers - the two popular mainstays with fairly estabished tonal identities, who also make hand-wired custom amps/reissues and the boutique makers. Then you've got the Tier with Peavey, Crate, new Ampegs, Randall, and others that live in the SS and/or PCB worlds, and don't do high-end specialty work. Line 6 sort of is in a different category altogether, with budget-to-pro amps, but all a completely different technology.

Again - this is in the 6-string world, and primarily in the rock/blues arena. I know a lot of country Tele pickers use Peavey amps...not that many in the southern California area, which is still Fender territory. Club guys here use a lot of different amps, but I haven't seen a Peavey used as a guitar amp live in probably 10 years. I'm not dissing the amps or players - it's just in the 6-string world Peavey holds down a spot as "affordable" amps...not tonally superior, nor is there eally an identifiable "Peavey sound" in the 6-string world like there is with Fender, Marshall (and Vox, which I forgo to list).

I'm still fairly new to the steel world, and it's interesting to me how Peavey is THE amp line for most steel players. I'm just trying to learn more about them, and the SS amp arena as well....because among 6-string rock/blues players, 99% of SS amps are considered beginner/intermediate player products (B.B. King being a notable exception with his old Gibson Lab-series SS amps). With the exception of my Fender GDec (a greeat tool) and a Pignose, everything I have is tube all the way....

John - Yes, I thought Jim might stock them, but that's an 85 mile trip one way! Next time I go to San Diego I'll stop by his place again...I did for a short visit once but didn't look at amps at all, we were playing with weird tone bars.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 08 October 2006 at 09:43 AM.]

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I've done several jobs with Alan Frizzell (Lefty and David's younger brother) - who is an excellent Tele picker. When we first met, the first thing he did was look at our amps. At the time I had a Nashville 400 and he commented "I had the right amp for steel". The lead picker uses a Fender Deluxe Reverb and he commened that he had the "right amp" for lead. The first gig I did with him, Alan had an old 50's Tele and a Twin Reverb - the last job we did with him he was using a Mesa Boogie.

David Doggett · Posted 8 Oct 2006 11:06 am

Jim, Jack is right. Country tele players are part of the 6-string world. They mostly play Fenders or other tube amps. A few play Peavey solid state amps, maybe with pedal or multiple FX units in front.

The love affair of pedal steelers with Peavey solid state amps came about because of the need for so much clean power with the volume pedal used for sustain. with the thick sustained or even swelled steel chords, clean string separateion is more important than the crunch, pick sensitivity and controlled distortion 6-stringers need. With most tube amp makers catering to 6-stringer tone, Peavey filled the pedal steel niche with powerful, hi-fi, clean tone, mid-sweep controls, 15" speakers, and affordable prices. Many of the very top steelers have played these amps. The rest of the Peavey amps are different story. Not being a 6-stringer I don't know much about them, but from the adds and endorsements, a few of the top Peavey SS and tube amps seem to fit in the mid-level mass produced niche.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I realize Peavey has cared out a string niche in the steel market - mainly by catering TO the market, just like the boutique amp makers have catered to the 6-stringers. Not having had any extensive exposure to them I wanted to learn more about them, and I couldn't find much info on the web except about new models - and still not much clear info on their dedicated-steel effects and such. Long-time steelers just seeem to "know" about it through osmosis, or maybe because a lot of the players are in geographic areas where the equipment is physically available to try in stores. Another example would be the Profex (I think that's it) - I see mentions of them being mounted on steels, special patches, etc - but have never even seen a unit on a shelf in a store.

So I keep using my tube stuff and mass of stompbox effects, as I have no way of trying things out - that's a disadvantage not living in "steel territory", but then I'm not playing "normal" steel so it may be that I don't need any of it anyway. But I do like to learn about it, and coming from a part of the 6-string world where there was essentially zero Peavey use, it was really unusual to see almost every amp-related post mention Peavey.

Tonal question - I realize the things are made for huge headroom and clean tones...but CAN you get overdriven sounds that are just on the edge of clean...where you can nudge one into light overdrive via volume or pick attack? That's what I've never found in a SS amp - the almost "organic" quality that gives an amp a warm, smooth, almost compressed sound; a breathing quality. I've found every SS amp I've tried to be either clean or harsh and fizzy - no warm, yet "edgy" sound to be found, and no "personality" - just kind of sterile.

I guess I'm curious if the same things are present with the Fender Steel King or the smaller makers like Webb (I forget the other one I've heard mentioned). Or do things like the Cyber Twin work for steel?

I'm just looking "outside the box" - since tube amps are all I know. I'm not buying right now, just getting educated. Thanks for the replies and please keep 'em coming - it's great info.

Jon Jaffe · From: Austin, Texas

Here is a picture of a great 6 stringer, Redd Volkaert, with Cindy Cashdollar, and he is using an LTD. I know that this is anecdotal but, I suspect the reasons for using one amp over another involve multiple layers of preferences.

Many 6 stringers use numerous stomp boxes before their tube amplifier. What does this do to the "tube sound"?

To answer your question Jim, headroom, availability, cost and reliability are the reasons. From what I remember, Peavey had a business model, with complete vertical integration. They manufactured and assembled everything, no outsourcing, and were able to provide a quality product at a reasonable price. In addition, they marketed to the steel guitarist, and it has paid off for both them and us.

Should you lose your marbles, try a NV 400, 112, or 1000 in a full band setting.

[This message was edited by Jon Jaffe on 08 October 2006 at 03:13 PM.]

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I suspect the role of the instrument within a typical band sound has a lot to do with tonal choices. Steel players and guitarists both need to be able to play both quietly and loudly, for playing rhythm and solos respectively. Guitarists have long been going to boosters, channel switching, stompbox overdrives, even multiple amp setups for this - I don't think you'd want to use your "Purple Haze" tone for rhythm chords, backing up a chick singer/love ballad? Additionally, there aren't too many heavy metal pedal steel guitar trios for the musicians to emulate - that affects the conceptions people develop about what sounds "right" for a given instrument.

Given that a steel guitarist's feet are already pretty busy, and there is no significant role model of shrieking, overdriven steel for pedalers to emulate (and listeners to adapt to), the option that has prevailed to meet the soft/loud need has been a volume pedal and lots of clean headroom, rather than outside boosters or channel switching. There's also an issue of clashing overtones when tubes or circuits are overdriven; I would guess that a typical E9th steel guitar "2nd bending to a 3rd, held against a tonic note" lick could sound quite hideous through a cranked Mesa/Boogie Triple Rectifier or some such amp.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Jim,
If you go to www.peavey.com, in the top right, click on "Manuals".
Many manuals for steel related items are there, including Session 400/500 amps, Vegas 400, Profex II effects, etc...

I like to mix and match my tube (SF Deluxe Reverb, SF Vibrosonic Reverb) and SS amps (Session 400, Nashville 112) with stereo effects.
The Session 400 with the Deluxe Reverb sounds killer in stereo, for steel!
I've been using that combo lately for steel, and use the Vibrosonic w/ JBL D140 for electric guitar.
Funn Stuff!
~pb

David Doggett · Posted 8 Oct 2006 3:04 pm

Jim, from what I've read on Forum, the old Sessions are considered to have warmer SS tone than the later Peaveys, and some old timers swear by them, but they weigh a ton. The NV400 is probably the biggest seller and until recently was the work horse of the pedal steel world. The NV1000 has a little more volume, but has a midrange honk that some don't think sounds as good as previous Peaveys. With its small size and weight, and with so many people miking amps these days, the NV112 has been a smash hit.

All these amps were designed and voiced for steel. Because of their availability and cost, they cornered the steel market. That's why you hear so much about them here. You probably can't walk in most music stores on the West Coast (or anywhere else) and buy a pedal steel, so you wont see steel amps either. But at the few steel shops around the country, you can always buy a Peavey steel amp. With memories of underpowered distorting tube amps, steelers embraced the clean and powerful SS amps. But, because the steel market is so small, I doubt Peavey has made much profit on the steel amps. Their bread and butter are the modest cost amps for 6-stringers. They may not be prominent or trendy in the big coastal cities, but I think they are widely sold throughout the country.

In terms of overdriven tone, you cannot drive most of the Peavey steel amps to much distortion at any volume. And if there is any distortion up there, it is unpleasant solid state distortion. They are not designed for that. I think the same is true for the few non-Peavey steel amps also (Web, Evans, Stereo Steel). With these amps, and the search for clean headroom for classic country, tone and volume controls on the guitar seemed unneeded, and were dropped by many manufacturers. Steelers don't walk around the stage away from their amps; they usually sit right next to the amp and easily tweak the tone there.

Even for tube amps, some steelers (self included) prefer the clean-to-the-top silver-face Fenders over earlier black face models. This was sort of a fortunate historical accident for steelers. In the silver-face years, Fender designers blundered and made clean-to-the-top amps without realizing the mass of 6-stringers were becoming disillusioned with the new solid-state and clean tube amps. This almost killed Fender, and started the runup of prices on the old black-face Fenders. The street lore became that CBS quality cuts ruined Fenders, but it was just as much the design blunder to make clean-to-the-top SF amps, including the late SF amps with the clean and powerful ultra-linear transformers. They belatedly added preamp gain and master volume controls to try to allow some distortion, but it was too little and too late for the 6-string world. Fender lost huge market share to Marshall, Vox and other tube amp makers who understood something about distortion; and good controlled tube distortion became the goal of the huge 6-string market.

Meantime, steelers went for clean amps, either SS (Peavey and a few other SS makes), with some holdovers sticking with SF Fenders, which have been having a bit of a come-back. For those who wanted some distortion, as a secondary interest, some distortion devices were made for steel (Steel Driver, Profex, etc.), and there was the whole world of 6-string FX units available. As rock and blues have continued to make incursions into modern country, there seems to be more interest in fuzz, overdrive and distortion units. And a lot of steelers with these interests have kept an exploratory eye out for amps or mods that will give both lots of clean headroom and some useful distortion.

While there is something to be said for power tube distortion, I am impressed with the genuine tube distortion from small units like the Vox Tonelab and the Seymour Duncan Twin Tube. I run the latter in front of my volume pedal and SF Fenders. Eventually these type of tube preamp-like units in front of clean, powerful, but small and light SS power amps might give us both clean headroom and good distortion in small and light rigs.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 08 October 2006 at 09:21 PM.]

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

For clarification- to my knowledge- one would have a tough time finding a Session 400 LTD- it is called a Session 400 Limited and is a very good steel amp. Also consider a Peavey ValveKing- (N'ville 112 size).

Dyke Corson · From: Fairmount, IL USA

Sorry Jim, you are right, I was using LTD meaning "Limited"..

David Doggett · Posted 9 Oct 2006 9:03 am

Jim S., if you don't already know this, you should know that many steelers have used SS or tube preamps with rack unit rigs, tube and SS power amps, or in front of Peavey SS steel amps. There are of course many rack units out there. Mesa Boogie, THD and Mosvalve are some I see mentioned a lot. There are some units designed especially for steel. The latest are Brad Sarno's Blackbox (a tube buffer and simple preamp), and his Revelation preamp (http://www.steelguitarblackbox.com/index.html), a very sophisticated and flexible handmade tube preamp with high end audio components. Many steelers are running the Blackbox in front of the regular preamp of a Peavey steel amp, or they run the Revelation into the power section of a Peavey steel amp, or other power amp. So steelers may not use the same high end tube amps 6-stringers do, because they are not designed for steel; but that does not mean that they don't use some high end audio components (tube and SS) in their rigs.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 09 October 2006 at 10:05 AM.]

Mike Brown · From: Meridian, Mississippi USA

Jim Sliff, I compiled a history of our various steel amp models and have posted it on our website. Here is a link to it; http://www.peavey.com/media/pdf/steelguitar/31years.pdf

Like other musical instrument manufacturers, Peavey Musical Instruments are distributed and sold worldwide. It is up to the manufacturer and local dealer to "spread the word" with the help of national and local advertisements. Naturally, if a product is good, word of mouth will usually spread the word quickly. However, there are some brands which never really "make it onto the stage" for some reason or another but that doesn't mean that those products are not quality products.

Now, how does a musician know if a certain company's product is worthy or not until that musician actually tries one out? I personally wouldn't purchase a product on a "word of mouth" recommendation unless it was a trusted musician friend. I would try to find a way to try the amp out first.

Peavey has been designing and manufacturing steel guitar amplifiers since the early '70's. As mentioned in the above article, there is quite a bit of history behind Peavey steel amps. Experience means a lot.

Judging a company on an "A" or "B" rating is valid only if both the A and B companies are on level playing fields. If they are, then the "sound" of a product is completely subjective.

But, add in company support, ease of servicability, power, features and user testimonials and this should provide the groundwork for a purchase decision. A reputation is not made overnight.

Mike Brown
Peavey USA

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

I have been using Peavey for steel guitar and lead guitar for over 30 years. I also use other makes too. With Peavey, you know that you are generally buying reliability. The exception was the Session 500 which was a disaster for me, letting me down on a number of occasions. However, my Nashville 400 has been the epitomy of reliabilty for 20 plus years. I guess it is the luck of the draw.

My ValveKing 212 is a wonderful amp that gives a tonal voicing way in advance of its purchase price.

I hear the whispers of a new steel amp from Peavey. I just hope that it comes with a different EQ system. The modern steel guitar is very heavy in the mid range, and most of the Peavey steel amps also accentuate the mid range. The parametric EQ system is not the easiest to dial out pronounced midrange frequencies.

Speaker-wise, Peavey make some of the most reliable and efficient speakers available. I have got through a few JBL's in my time but the Black Widow, Scorpion and Blue Marvel speakers are superb.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Mike, that's a great resource. thanks for the link.

As I said, I just want to not be so "in the dark" as far as amp conversations go - when folks kick around tube amps I'm hopefully considered a reliable source, but the Peavey steel amps were pretty much a new thing to me, and a surprising one. Still need to get some more info on the various effects systems players are using as well. It's not that I'm out shopping for these things, as I think my playing and tonal tendancies would be much more "guitar-like" than 90% of the steelers would use, but I'd still like to be knowledgable about what IS used by most players.

Might as well toss out another related question - do the SS amps usually need a Matchbox or some other impedance-matching device in front of them to handle the high-impedance pickups of modern steels? the MSA I had for a short while (with 21k pickups) sounded awful with every amp, including SS ones, without a Match Box...my Fenders are fine all the way around, wit pickups at around 9k (less than many humbuckers)...my GFI, though, is sort of in the middle at around 12k, and sounds pretty good but may need something with the Vibroverb. Do players with high-impedance pickups just plug straight in to SS amps? Are the SS steel amps' input stages modified for that type of signal?

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Jim, here are a couple of fairly recent threads on input impedance of amps, which has a significant effect on the overall tone.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/007803.html http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/007805.html

The upshot is that most tube amps have a high input impedance - on the order of 1 MegOhm - because tubes are naturally high-impedance devices. It's possible to make solid-state amps high input-impedance also, but there are other tradeoffs since transistors are fundamentally not high-impedance devices themselves. As discussed in those threads, the input impedance of many of the desirable Peavey steel amps is relatively low - typically 220 KOhms. I can hear the difference, so I like to use a buffered preamp from my volume pedal or guitar to the amp.

The main effect, IMO, of a low ratio of amp-input-impedance to source-output-impedance is that the sound tends to lose high-end shimmer, but the exact effect depends on a lot of things.

For the record, I think the bashing a lot of guitar players give many of the good Peavey amps is unfair. I think a lot of it goes back to the fact that these amps were historically real popular with country players, who were in the "loud and clean" business, not the "loud and crunchy" business. I've known plenty of country players who won't have anything else but a Peavey, and they can have whatever they want. Like all of this amp stuff, it's down to personal taste. But tell me that a guy like Jerry Reed in his prime playing through a Session or LTD 400 isn't some great sound. Or how about Phil Upchurch playing with a Peavey T-60 guitar into a Peavey solid-state amp. Nothing wrong with his chops or tone either, IMO.

I just picked up a Nashville 112 from Bobbe, and lemme tell you, with a Steel Guitar Black Box in front, this thing has a great clean tone for either steel or guitar. Even my brightest Tele doesn't take my head off, but it sure does the "loud and clean" thing nicely. Or try it with a jazz archtop with humbuckers - very nice in a club setting.

I actually think that one needs to work with these solid-state amps a bit more to find their sweet spots with a guitar like a Tele. The tone controls are pretty wide-ranging, which means you need to dial them in. These amps also don't have a lot of "squish factor" - they articulate pretty directly what you're playing. Maybe not the ticket for everything, but there are times when I find that very useful.

Forum Index > Electronics		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic