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Topic: Spring or digital ?? |
Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2006 8:46 pm |
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Just fishing 
Do you guys and gals like spring or digital reverb?? As for me. Old school. I like spring. Guess a sign of getting old ?
Better than the alternative !Q!
I know we all get bored reading about picks, colors,pedals,set ups,amps,efx,and what ever. Just thought I would find out if I was the only steel player using spring reverb ?
Thanks Bill
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2006 9:24 pm
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I prefer a little delay to reverb for steel, but when I do use reverb it's usually the spring type on my Fender or Holland amps. Sometimes, though, I like to run through old tweed or brown amps - then I use the EH Holy Grail, which I think is the best non-spring, non-plate reverb ever made. This from someone who grew up dripping in reverb playing surf music.
I've never found another pedal or rack-mount reverb that sounded worth a squat in comparison to spring reverb, except for ones that actually use a reverb tank.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 28 February 2006 at 09:26 PM.] |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2006 11:31 pm
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Just Fender Spring for me.
Ricky |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 1:49 am
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| I use the Holy Grail as well. Lately I've been trying the 'verb on my Twin and it's not too bad. I do find that it's all or nothing, though. I can't really find a happy medium. On 2 it's barely audible, on 3 it's soaked. On the Holy Grail you can set the depth of the 'verb pretty accurately, yet it sounds very authentic and old-fashioned. And there's no big CRASH!! when you trip over the amp after a few beers. |
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Richard Mitcham
From:
Ocklawaha, Florida
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 5:48 am
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I wonder, is it possible to change spring reverb tanks from say a fender twin to my 112 and get the fender reverb sound? Or is the reverb sound already built into a given amp.
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 5:50 am
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| Holy Grail and be done with it... As good as any reverb I have ever heard.... bob |
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 6:06 am
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I like spring reverb if it has a long, smooth decay time, such as the old Fenders. But for most of my playing I use digital reverb. I use a Digitech 2112 preamp/effects unit when I play with a band.
I have an Acoustic Image amp and a couple of Evans amps with digital reverb built in that I really like, but they are use mostly for 6 string.
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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 6:44 am
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| Lately, I just use my DD-6 and my RV-5. My spring in my twin is pretty ring-y. I may go switch tanks and try it again. |
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John Poston
From:
Albuquerque, NM, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 8:11 am
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I'm a big fan of spring reverb but a lot of people here really dislike it.
I think the Fender reverb sound had a lot more to do with the tube circitry driving the reverb than the tank itself.
One thing you can check on any amp is get the part number of the reverb tank and go to www.accutronicsreverb.com. Check out your tank length and number of springs and try a longer tank with 6 springs (3 rows) if you don't have one already. |
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Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 8:40 am
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I've had lots of Fenders and a few digital reverbs including the Holy Grail. Of the digital 'verbs, I do like the Holy Grail best. That said, for me, a decent spring reverb still sounds light years better. I don't have supernatural ears at all, but I can definitely tell the difference.
I like the sring reverb on my Webb just fine too. |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 9:31 am
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I have a 60 or 61 GA 45 rv... (a Gibson tube amp) that I use for very low volume acoustic type gigs. These usually have 4 speakers... 8 inch Jensens. Mine has a 15"... looks like it came from the factory that way.
The reverb was pretty extreme, all or nothing so not too useful. I had the amp at a rehearsal and my band mate GE Smith checked it out. He suggested that I try a short spring reverb tank. I did, and it really made the reverb a lot better. I wouldn't have thought that... but, apparently, GE has been using Super Champs a lot lately and liked the Fender sound with a short tank..... |
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Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 9:55 am
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| I was an old roadhog using my session 400 for 20+ years. Would have stood by it. When I tried a Digitech effects rack just to see if it would work for me. Fell in love and turned my reverb off. Never go back to springs. I bought a POD XT and love it. No more springs for me!! |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 9:56 am
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I find that all spring reverb is not created equal.
The Fender 75 amp that I recently picked up has the most usable reverb of any amp reverb I've heard.
I am using the amp reverb and just use my RV3 for delay.
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 10:31 am
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| Quote: |
| I think the Fender reverb sound had a lot more to do with the tube circitry driving the reverb than the tank itself |
Au contrare, mon ami, the specific mechanical design of the spring tank is at least 90% of the sound. If you go to the Accutronics link posted above you will find that there are a number of two- and three-spring models, long and short, and each has its own distinct signature sound (note that the various impedance differences do not affect the sound but simply allow for each model to be used with a variety of amp designs).
Fender has historically used the Accutronics two-spring medium decay long tank in their amps, which is the same one that came stock in my old Randall Steel Man 500. Its choppy, relatively short tail sounds great for telecaster but sucks for pedal steel. I swapped it out for a three-spring long decay unit - a unit with a long pre-delay and a silky-smooth extended tail - and started leaving my digital gear at home for the first time in over twenty years.
One of the problems with reverb for steel is that of pre-delay, i.e. the time gap between the original dry sound and the onset of reverberration. With a spring tank you're stuck with whatever you have and all you can do is control the final level of the effect. With digital gear one can set this pre-delay fairly long (I like 100ms or more) allowing the dry sound to stand out from the reverb. Of course with digital gear there are a number of other parameters that can be adjusted as well and this versatility is primarily whay so many folks prefer going the digital route these days. [This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 01 March 2006 at 10:39 AM.] |
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Jim Ives
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 2:47 pm
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I actually like the reverb on my Nashville 1000 more than the ones from my RV-3. It is warmer and cleaner than the RV-3's. But I do want to try the Holy Grail and compare it to the 1000. Any one in Los Angeles got one they want to lend me for a few days?
-Jim |
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Derrell Stephens
From:
Shreveport, La. USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2006 6:19 pm
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| Prefer Both; If I use a spring unit verb,,, I must cusomize it to make it usable (any of them). Then a good blend of analog/digital to fit the needs of the venue ... a good Yamaha digital reverb, (as far back as the SPX90). If I must have one or the other, I use only the spring reverb in my Evans amp. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Mar 2006 3:24 am
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I'm currently using the spring reverb model in my POD XT. Before the POD XT, I was using a DD-5 and the spring reverb in my Peavey amps. I like the POD XT's spring reverb settings better than any Peavey amp spring reverb.
But, the spring reverb in most older Fender's are probably the best spring reverb's around. |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 2 Mar 2006 7:18 am
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I'm with Jack on this one. I've got a few old
blackface Fender reverb amps & the PODxt does a
heckuva job emulating them.
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Mark Herrick
From:
Bakersfield, CA
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Posted 2 Mar 2006 7:44 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...I use the EH Holy Grail, which I think is the best non-spring, non-plate reverb ever made. |
I have the Holier Grail. It goes up to 11. That's why it's holier...
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Mark Herrick
From:
Bakersfield, CA
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Posted 2 Mar 2006 7:49 pm
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| Quote: |
| (note that the various impedance differences do not affect the sound but simply allow for each model to be used with a variety of amp designs) ... Fender has historically used the Accutronics two-spring medium decay long tank in their amps ... I swapped it out for a three-spring long decay unit... |
Are you saying that you don't have to replace the original tank with one of the same input and output impedances? What effect does that have on the circuit and the sound in an amp if it is mismatched?[This message was edited by Mark Herrick on 02 March 2006 at 07:52 PM.] |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 5 Mar 2006 12:04 pm
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No, Mark, I'm not saying that at all. Mismatched impedances will mess with the gain structure and frequency response pretty bad and are not recommended.
What I am saying is that most of the different model tanks (the difference being in the nature of the reverb effect that they generate) are available with input and output characteristics to match most any amp - you order the tank with the sound you want with the impedances to match the application.
If you want a long decay with the choppiness of the two-spring system or a shorter decay with the smoothness of the three-spring system, a small tank to fit a small space, etc. you can get what you want in an I/O impedance combination that works for your amp. [This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 05 March 2006 at 12:08 PM.] |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 5 Mar 2006 9:18 pm
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I might add the economic benefit of getting the right spring reverb: With a direct order cost of under $30 for just about any reverb tank in the book, you could buy several different units and try them out, pick the one that you really like, sell or give the rest of them away to folks here on the forum and still save money over buying the latest greatest digital device. Biggest bonus of all is the potential for it to become one more piece of gear that you DON'T have to remember, pack up, carry, unpack, plug in, pack back up, remember again and then carry a couple more times each night.
If your playing demands the broader gamut of EQ, delay and dynamics processing then your needs will never be completely met by the humble spring, but if you want a great spring sound to feed your other effects through. or if you merely want the "perfect" reverb sound for you, right there at hand, built into your amp, then a visit to the Accutronics website and the prudent invesment of one or two nights' beer money might just change your life. That and my good friend Randall did it for me, and that's the honest truth, my friends. |
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