Recording directly to a computer

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

I wonder if any of you have tried the following; I saw at Best Buy a device that lets you come out of any cassette deck, to the device, then on to the USB of your computer. In this way you can record your old cassettes to the hard drive, or to a CD.
The device was also supposed to work for the out of a record player also, so you could convert old records to CD. I am always thinking. All the output of a cassette deck, or record player, is line level voltage. I'm talking about the pre-amp signal, not the signal to speakers. Anyway, why couldn't a person take microphones and a little pre-amped mixer unit and record directly to his computer through the USB? Am I missing something? I think it will work great.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Your computer's sound card surely has line and and mic inputs already.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Keith, I go directly from a small 4 channel mixer directly into th eLine In jack. works for me...I've done thousands of songs this way into Music match.

Phred

Klaus Caprani · From: Copenhagen, Denmark

In order for you to record via the USB, you'd need some kind of analog/digital converter (the "box" making it possible to load in your old cassette tapes into your computer is exactly that - A converter).

A more easy way is to connect a small mixer to the "Line in" jacks in your computers soundcard. (Your soundcard features analog/digital, or A/D converters as well).

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Keith, the adapter box is not needed for levels from a tape deck or if you "record" to the PC from the "recording" or "line" out of a stereo amp. Most Desktop PC's have a stereo "Line In" and a Mono "mic" input and that's all you need. On some laptop's there is no Line In and in those cases something like the USB connected interface unit would be needed.

As far as the PC sound card inputs, most require at least 10 Mv, thus an "instrument level" signal is too low for a computer. Same way with the Mic input, the input level requirements are more than what a standard P.A. mic will output and the reason they do not work or work well with a PC. The Mic input on a PC is designed for the "computer mic's" which are a condenser type and require 5VDC (which is not enough for a P.A. mic that requires 48 VDC Phantom Power).

Here is a site that lists some of these specs. http://www.epanorama.net/links/pc_sound.html

My interfacing audio to a PC also has some info http://the-predator.tripod.com/dell/sec7-9.html

In reference to a turntable, unless the turntable has a built in "RIAA preamp" you won't be able to directly interface that to the PC. Youo need the RIAA preamp to restore the full fidelity and then to amplify the phone level to a useable level - a "phono" input on a stereo system does this.

Doug Rolfe · From: Indianapolis, IN

I have a program called analog plus which is actually already in windows xp but you need to activate it through Microsoft for $19.95 and then they will send you a code via e-mail to unlock it.
I go directly into my sound card from the tape player and then I can edit the track and it also takes out hiss and pops. I am blown away by the quality from tapes after the program processes it.
Regarding records---
It is true that you will not get true fidelity from a record player without something to help it. However, you can record the tracks from vinyl and the program will do the best it can to recreate the original sound. It isn't too bad. I have converted several records and have obtained satisfactory results.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I have seen any number of "interface" devices for sale that claim to do what you can already do just by plugging in through a little mixer or preamp of almost any sort. It appears to me to be like AOL, or selling snow to the Eskimos or something - trying to hoodwink people into paying for something that's right there in front of you for free.

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

Keith, anytime I record vinyl audio for CD production, I use a free program "Audacity", for taking out the noise that is characteristic of old vinyl records. After experimenting with it for a while I found it does a fairly good job of filtering clicks and noise, while keeping the high end relatively intact.

Later on, you may want to explore higher sampling rates. Instead of recording at the typical 44KHz-16bit, There are lots of programs out there that allow you to up that to 96KHz-24bit. It makes a huge improvement on the high end, if your into crisp cymbals and horns. It also creates better quality (IMHO) when you convert later to CD-Audio or mp3. My economical choice for PC recording is "Power Tracks". I use it with a home-made P-4 computer, SB Audigy sound card, line in/out with a mixing board, for sound on sound recording.

Mike

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The higher bit rate is great, but standard audio CD's are all 16 bit.

I have a SB Audigy 2 and I've "record" to the hard drive using the 24 bit mode - and I do that for all my "masters" that I mixdown from my Fostex VF160 recorder.

But, I've recorded from the same cassette tape in both 16 and 24 and don't hear any difference when both are burned to a CD.

The Audacity is a good freeware program, but I've got better "recording" programs and I use GoldWave to edit, remove noise (from vinyl or tape), set the levels, etc.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Jack, over the years I have never been able to pin down exact number of what a line level signal really is. I have read quotes where the top end is somewhere around 1 volt.
The bottom end being around 200 mili-volts.
Your 10 mili-volts seem really low, even in the range of a passive magnetic pickup. I am sure the quality of the sound card has a lot to do with the end quality. I'm seeing a good little mixer that puts out a line level signal, run to the PC sound card. XP Professional should have everything else built in. I'm going to try it and see. Jack, not to change the subject, but I just run into a new source of noise in single coil pickups. I was testing pedals the other day and started getting some noise. I changed cords,polarity on my amps, and a bunch of other things and the noise was still there.
Finally I found the problem. The leg of my steel was touching an electric baseboard heater. The heater was 240 volt, with a ground. My equipment was 120 volt, with a ground. There must of been a slight difference in the ground potential. Anyway, what kind of surprised me was the fact that the baseboard heater was painted. It did seem to me that there would be that much conduction with the baseboard being painted.
There was! Jack, there are always new surprises. Jack I recently talked to Lonnie Harper, and today to our friend Bruce Zumsteg. Your friend Keith

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Keith, the voltage levels I have were taken from various technical bulletins and are the "industry standards" for computer sound cards. One of my sources was SoundBlaster, another was the Shure microphone company. The current "standards" have been around for at least the last 8 years (and maybe longer). The original computer sound did have different parameters (some older PC sound used RCA connectors not the 1/8" mini stereo plugs, and very old sound had a built in power amp where newer sound cards do not an it requires "powered" speakers (ones with a built in power amp).

"Line Level" means different things, in reference to professional sound equipment it's one thing, for a PC it's something different.

The basic Windows XP, whether the "Home", "Professional" or "Media Center" does not have everything built in for recordings. The only "recorder" that comes with Windows is the Winodws Sound Recorder which only records from the (mono) microphone input and it is limited to a maximum of 60 seconds. Same way with the PC's you buy from Gateway, HP, Dell, etc there is no "recording program". You will need to install a 3rd party "recording" program. I have Roxio Easy Media Creator Version 7.5 (current version is Cool

and it has a user friendly recording program for "line in" or "mic".

I missed Lonnie the last time I was in KC (late August, just before the convention). I do talk to him via e-mail.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

That is exactly what I mean Jack. The words "Line Level" signal means many different things. As you said it means something different in the PC world, and something different in the music audio industry. I will look into some 3rd party recording software. Thanks!

Joseph Meditz · From: Sierra Vista, AZ

Hi Keith,

For recording with a mic, I use a Tascam US-122 which uses the USB port bypassing the sound card. This unit has two mic inputs with phantom power. It gets all its power from the USB port making for a neat setup without a wall wart. It also has two LlNE INs (1/4" jacks) so you could connect it to your stereo with adapters and make CDs from records or tapes as you asked.

I do this because I use a laptop which is more portable and more quiet than a desk top unit and,. And because I have had noise problems using the sound card on certain laptops. In one case random clicking sounds from the HD were getting into the recording. So with this setup there are noworries about the sound card.

While the US-122 has its own mic preamp I do use a cheap mixer for better control. For SW I use either an old (and bullet proof) sound Forge 6.0 or N-Track Studio (no so bullet proof) for overdubbing and effects.

Provided you don't have any hassles with drivers (no guarantees there), USB is a good way to go since you get consistent results independent of sound cards.

Joe

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