| Author |
Topic: P/U Choice For Buzzing Venue |
Lawrence Lupkin
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
|
Posted 20 Jun 2005 12:15 pm |
|
The last time I played a gig in a particular bar, I encountered horrible buzz using my '66 bolt on with original pick-up. The place is notorious for it. I am a complete electronics idiot. Would my late 70s Sho-Bud Pro III fare any better? Perhaps something about the winding, etc?
Thanks!
|
|
|
 |
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 20 Jun 2005 1:45 pm
|
|
It's probably the single coil pickup thing. Unless you have a hum bucking pickup all you can do is try to minimize the interference.
The stock pickups on Sho-Bud's are single coil, not humbucking. |
|
|
|
Dyke Corson
From:
Fairmount, IL USA
|
Posted 20 Jun 2005 1:45 pm
|
|
Emmons 108 humbucking in that model guitar has worked the best for me. Still sounds like an Emmons, with no hum at all! Someone told me they "bark", and they do!!  |
|
|
|
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 20 Jun 2005 4:12 pm
|
|
Lawrence,
Are you talking about Freddy's ? That place is a nightmare with single coils. There is nothing you can do about it short of changing the pickups on your Emmons which would be the dumbest thing in the world to do. Your guitar is one of the best sounding PP steels in the history of the universe and you would be nuts to screw with it. (I'm not kidding guys. His particular Emmons is freakishly amazing sounding.)
Maybe one of those power conditioners would help but it seems like a alot of hassle.
Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 20 June 2005 at 05:15 PM.] |
|
|
|
Michael Haselman
From:
St. Paul
|
Posted 20 Jun 2005 5:42 pm
|
|
I'd love to hear if there was something you could do in these places to eliminate the hum, short of changing pickups. Anybody that plays out frequently comes across this occasionally. It can be very annoying.
------------------
Marrs D-10, Webb 6-14E
|
|
|
|
Lawrence Lupkin
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
|
Posted 21 Jun 2005 4:36 am
|
|
First and foremost, I would never, never, never (no, really) never, never mess with the sound of that push-pull. Yes Bob, it is Freddy's. Compounding the problem is the fact that I'm the only amplified instrument in this particular band. Everthing else is miked or put through a direct box. The last time I played there was intolerable.
I probably wasn't very clear on my original post. Although they are both single coils, would one be less buzz-receptive than another? Basically I think I have my answer. 
Hasn't some electronics wizard put out some kind of device to put in line that would cancel noise without changing the pick-up and therefore the integral sound of the guitar? As Michael says, this does occur every now and again.
Thanks for your input. |
|
|
|
Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
|
Posted 21 Jun 2005 4:43 am
|
|
Lawrence,
The only way you can defeat the Freddy's gremlin would be to conceivably turn both necks on on the Bud. If the bank selector is on for both necks and you can avoid hitting notes on C6 you will basically have a gigantic humbucker...
I had a miserable experience there myself... I sympathize with you, and I don't want to swap out my single coils either. |
|
|
|
Lawrence Lupkin
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
|
Posted 21 Jun 2005 4:45 am
|
|
| I hadn't thought of that! Would that actually work? Nifty. |
|
|
|
David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
|
Posted 21 Jun 2005 7:04 am
|
|
| In theory it seems like you should be able to take a second identical pickup and wire it with the regular pickup, but tape it upside down underneath the guitar to create the humbucking effect. You could tape over the exposed pole pieces to keep them from picking up any signal. I don't know whether the wiring should be in series or parallel. On the other hand, this may be completely wrong. Maybe humbuckers work because both pickups are under the strings getting the signal, but they are in opposite polarity. Somebody ask Bill Lawrence - I don't have time to hear the answer. |
|
|
|
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 21 Jun 2005 12:43 pm
|
|
As far as I know the pickups need to be wired out of phase from each other to cancel hum when you use both of them at the same time. Its an easy fix if they are not wired that way already. It cuts down output a bit though when both pickups are on.
Bob |
|
|
|
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 21 Jun 2005 12:53 pm
|
|
Yeah, I was gonna guess Freddy's too. Had a bad time there a couple of years ago even with a BL humbucker. Played there a couple of times this spring and was ok with my BL XR-16. FWIW, I set up right near the PA board, stage left. When I had the problems I was set up on the other side by the fusbol table. One of the little things you can (and must) do is pick up your guitar and move it around until you find the quietest spot and orientation.
Considering that the wiring was probably done by the sausage vendor, I consider it a small miracle that the power at Hanks is as clean as it is.[This message was edited by Jon Light on 21 June 2005 at 01:54 PM.] |
|
|
|
Lawrence Lupkin
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
|
Posted 21 Jun 2005 1:07 pm
|
|
Thanks everyone. I'll try to experiment with my orientation, Jon. No, not like that. The last time I was stage right, so maybe I'll have bettter luck on the other side. Hmmm...who buzzes more, those on the left, or those on the right? Ah, but I digress.
|
|
|
|
Lawrence Lupkin
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
|
Posted 26 Jul 2005 7:19 am
|
|
| Mr Light, you were correct. Stage left facing at about 1:00 drastically reduced the problem. Just a heads up for those who might grace the Freddy's stage. |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 26 Jul 2005 7:56 am
|
|
Yes, pickup orientation is critical since the magnetic field orientation is very directional. As a guitar player (usually single-coil Teles), I do this constantly, and can use more than one dimension of rotation. Pedal steel has only one dimension of rotation, but in an electromagnetically noisy room, it can still help. If I'm having a buzz problem, I'll rotate the steel 360 degrees to see where it's quietest. I often find two null spots roughly 180 degrees apart, and pick the one that's facing most forward.
My favorite humbucking pickup is the Lawrence 705, but I generally prefer single-coil sound for either guitar or steel.
I honestly doubt something like a power conditioner or voltage regulator will help this particular problem, although they can be good for other things. Most buzzing like this is caused from the coupling of the pickup's magnetic field and stray electromagnetic radiation from transformers and other electrical equipment. |
|
|
|
Papa Joe Pollick
From:
Swanton, Ohio
|
Posted 26 Jul 2005 4:06 pm
|
|
| How about shielding? All the guitar electronics, and inputs on the amp..Works good for me..JMHO..P.J. |
|
|
|
Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
|
Posted 26 Jul 2005 7:28 pm
|
|
Lawrence, I have never tried this but Paul Franklin has stated I think on his web site that when he encounters a hum problem he places a piece of aluminum foil on the floor under his volume pedal. I am not sure under what conditions this works whether it might be a concrete floor of what but Paul says it so it would be worth a try. Maybe if Paul sees this he might enlighten us on it.
Jerry |
|
|
|
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 27 Jul 2005 12:03 pm
|
|
Lawrence--glad that location/position worked out. My understanding of this stuff is so minimal and I tend to attribute most electronic stuff to your basic voodoo. So it was without much confidence in the repeatability of my recent Freddy's experience that I mentioned that stage-left thing.
I posted the same dilemma about the same place a couple of years ago and in fact one of the suggestions was that aluminum foil thing. I tried it with absolutely no good results. If the suggestion indeed comes from a Franklin, Jr. or Sr., then it is one that I will not take lightly and will remember for the future. But I'll wager that neither gentleman has played at Freddy's in Bklyn. Nor, likely, will they since it will soon be the new NBA Nets arena (god bless eminent domain). I hope the arena PA hums & buzzes like a mutha.[This message was edited by Jon Light on 27 July 2005 at 01:39 PM.] |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 27 Jul 2005 1:36 pm
|
|
On shielding, the issue is "Where is the electromagnetic field coupling occurring?". If it's happening mainly through the pickup, shielding the bottom of a metal-enclosed volume pedal will do nothing. But if the pickup is humbucking and noise coupling is happening through a bottomless volume pedal with exposed components (like the one that came with the early 80s Franklin D-10 I had a while ago, or my Emmons volume pedal), it might help.
To try to figure out if this would help, surround various components completely with conductive metal foil, and then attach that to the guitar ground. The difficulty is that some components, like pickups, would need to be removed. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to shield pickups - I've never gotten significant hum reduction doing this. I remember running some experiments a long time ago with shielding the P-90 pickups in a Les Paul Deluxe, nothing seemed to help. But shielding the control cavities of Les Pauls, Strats, and Teles did yield some useful results. Still, most of my big problems with noise like this have been from single-coil pickups. Pickup windings make a very efficient transformer secondary. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 27 Jul 2005 2:31 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| it seems like you should be able to take a second identical pickup and wire it with the regular pickup |
Nope sorry!
| Quote: |
| If the bank selector is on for both necks and you can avoid hitting notes on C6 you will basically have a gigantic humbucker... |
Nope to that one, too.
Yes, both pickups have to be under the strings
Yes, they have to be wired out of phase.
And yes, the polarity of the magnets must be opposite in each pickup to function a a true "humbucker" pickup.
You see, if it were easy, everyone would have made their own, by now! 
Also...putting single coils pickups of both necks on at the same time reduces the hum because it reduces the signal. The unactivated pickup just acts as a partial shunt to the signal the active pickup is producing. |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 27 Jul 2005 2:45 pm
|
|
| Donny's absolutely right there. But that does lead to an idea - make a matched set of single-coil D-10 pickups that are reverse-wound and opposite magnetic polarity. Then they would act as a humbucker when used together. This is done routinely with the middle pickup in Strats and also with the two pickups in G&L ASATS these days. Perhaps someone like Jerry Wallace could do that also. |
|
|
|
Jim Peters
From:
St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.
|
Posted 27 Jul 2005 4:11 pm
|
|
| In most clubs I play, it is the neon signs and/or light dimmers. At my main gig(Riddles) there is one particular neon,I think it is a Fat Tire sign. I finally figured to unplug it everynight when we play, 90% of the hum is gone. JimP [This message was edited by Jim Peters on 27 July 2005 at 05:13 PM.] |
|
|
|
Lawrence Lupkin
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
|
Posted 28 Jul 2005 4:11 am
|
|
| Jim, I believe this might be the case. I tried the unplugging route last time, but the condition of the various plugs and the sheer volume of multiple outlets around the room scared me off. I'm too young to fry. |
|
|
|
mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
|
Posted 29 Jul 2005 8:25 pm
|
|
| Played Freddy's tonight.... I even took a humbucker equipped guitar. The hum was still so bad that I couldn't stand it.... so I played really quiet and I don't think that anyone could hear me.... depressing. Possibly my last gig at that venue. |
|
|
|
Lawrence Lupkin
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
|
Posted 1 Aug 2005 4:21 am
|
|
Wow. A hum that could not be bucked.
|
|
|
|
Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
|
Posted 1 Aug 2005 8:41 am
|
|
Not to be contentious here, Donny, but when I have the p/u's both on on my Emmons single-coils (both necks active, switch in the middle position), the hum vanishes. Whether it would have worked at Freddy's or not, I don't recall, but it does work elsewhere.
While I can always appreciate the presence of theory that I can't begin to understand, I do know what my own ears experience.
Just FWIW... no disrespect intended. |
|
|
|
