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Topic: P.A. Feedback Eliminators - advice/opinion pls |
Dave Horch
From:
Frederick, Maryland, USA
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Posted 15 May 2005 4:25 am |
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Hi folks. I've been doing recording engineering for decades, and just recently have been asked to do a bit of live sound reinforcement at a few small venues. In the recording world unexpected feedback is not a real problem (for me at least), so these "feedback eliminators" that are common to live work are new to me.
Quick situation background: I'm working on an existing theatre setup. Decent equipment, but no feedback eliminator (which can be a big problem with live theatre at times).
The question: I would very much appreciate advice and/or opinions you may have on the various feedback killer boxes out there. I've noticed they range in price from ~$100 -> ~$1000+, and many in all $$ ranges seem to have the same electronic functionality (ultra-narrow Q, auto-detection, etc.). This application would need a "turn it on and forget it" two channel box. Of course, the less sonically obtrusive, the better, but what's the $$ tradeoff vs. real world sound? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance, -Dave Horch |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 May 2005 6:01 am
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You maybe should scope out the Peavey "Feedback Ferret". This unit automatically seeks out and cancels the offending feedback frequency. I believe the Feedback Ferret II is a two channel unit.
Erv |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 15 May 2005 9:57 am
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| We used a Behringer FBX in a rack system for several years with mixed results and finally quit using it. I believe that it would be fine for a stationary installation, or for a venue where there is plenty of set-up and sound-check time. But it was not very satisfactory for quick in-and-out gigs at all. Sometimes would use it on the monitors, but not on the mains, with good results. Want to buy a used one? |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 15 May 2005 2:55 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...these "feedback eliminators" that are common to live work are new to me |
Actually, Dave, they are not so common at all with professional rigs, fact is I've NEVER, EVER seen one in a pro sound system - they tend to screw with the sound something powerful and are only really useful to people who can't tune a system properly with a 1/3 octave or parametric EQ.
Get yourself a pair of White 4400's on eBay for about $150 each ($1100 when new!), or a KT parametric for a bit more.
Better science works better. If you need some suggestions in how to tune a rig with real gear let me know and I'll be happy to give you some pointers.[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 15 May 2005 at 03:57 PM.] |
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Paul Honeycutt
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 15 May 2005 9:03 pm
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| A good graphic or parametric EQ will be a better investment then a feedback eliminator. If you set up your system properly (pay attention to mic and speaker placement, etc.) then there's no need for a device like that that will suck the tone out of your PA rig. I've used the Sabine one time, and while it helped, it wasn't a cure all. Like so many things in life, improving your skill set will take you farther then an electronic short cut. |
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T. C. Furlong
From:
Lake County, Illinois, USA
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Posted 15 May 2005 9:06 pm
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Feedback eliminators can only work if the microphone and loudspeaker positions never change. Distance is part of what can effect at which frequency feedback will occur. Also, steep notch filters, (which is what a feedback eliminator uses) cause radical changes in phase response (think phase shifter sounds from a guitar pedal that isn't moving) I have a pro sound company with many systems and the only thing we have ever been able to successfully use a device like this is inserts on floor microphones for dance troupes such as Stomp.
I agree totally with Paul H. Feedback eliminators, destroyers, ferrets, etc. normally do way more harm than good. If you choose microphones carefully and place speakers well, you should not need much of anything more than a simple equalizer and your ears to control feedback.
TC[This message was edited by T. C. Furlong on 15 May 2005 at 10:08 PM.] [This message was edited by T. C. Furlong on 15 May 2005 at 10:10 PM.] |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 16 May 2005 11:05 am
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| Quote: |
| Like so many things in life, improving your skill set will take you farther then an electronic short cut |
...like playing the steel guitar... |
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Ben Slaughter
From:
Madera, California
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Posted 16 May 2005 12:48 pm
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| I'll second what Dave, Paul, and TC, have said. EQ good, auto feedback box bad. I'll also second what Mr. Schubert said, Wanna buy some used ones? |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 16 May 2005 1:54 pm
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I play an acoustic/electric guitar at church every Sunday morning. My Crate amp, which is designed for acoustic instruments, has a built-in feedback eliminator. Because of the close quarters where I set up in church, it really does come in handy; however, when we play on a larger stage, like in our parish hall, I turn off the feedback-eliminator and my guitar sounds so much better.
Lee, from South Texas |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 16 May 2005 10:05 pm
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I've had good luck with a graphic eq, going thru it band by band until I find a frequency that feeds back. Then I reduce that frequency and leave the others where they sound good.
That is the manual equivalent of what a lot of feed back eliminators do, I think. |
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