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Topic: 45s to 78s: do I use 78.2 or 78.8 rpm? |
John Pelz
From:
Kettering, Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 May 2004 11:07 am |
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One of my near-term projects is to record some 78s onto CD. As my turntable only has 45rpm & 33 rpm, I'm going to record the 78s onto RW disc at 45 rpm, rip the track to my hard drive, and use DCArt to digitally bring the speed up to 78 rpm.
I was poking around DCArt last night, learning how to do this, when, looking at the "Change speed"-menu, I noticed that there are two 78 rpm options: 78.2 rpm and 78.8. Any idea why the two slightly different options exist, and which one should I use? I know that the 2 speeds are pretty close to each other, and the final version will sound pretty close, whichever speed I end up using. It'd be nice to have the recordings spot-on, though, and it'd also be nice to learn something new in the process, too! Thanks in advance for any help.[This message was edited by John Pelz on 28 May 2004 at 12:08 PM.] |
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Mark Herrick
From:
Bakersfield, CA
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 29 May 2004 12:23 am
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There was more than one standard for 78's in the early days, also the machines were not too accurate anyway.
Basically change the speed, but don't overwrite the original sample track,
and then listen to the song with a keyboard handy.
If the tune is on pitch you got it right.
If the tune is off pitch, use the other setting.
If still wrong, then you must find some sort of relative % for the redigitization conversion. |
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Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
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Posted 29 May 2004 2:57 am
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The 78 rpm standard is 78.26 rpm.
The links Mark supplied are very good.
In the early days of disc recording up through the early '30s the speeds were not standardized very well and the recording speed could vary from 76 to 82 rpm.
Most all the early turntables had a variable speed feature to handle this.
When I was doing tape to disc transfers of early 78's, it was necessary to be able to match the speed of the originals in order to get the voice and music to the correct speed and timing.
John, the groove widths were also different.
The correct stylus tip radius for a 78 rpm is .0025" (earlier records used .003")
The stylus used with 33 and 45 rpm records is
.001." A stereo stylus may be .0005" to .0007"
Blake
[This message was edited by Blake Hawkins on 29 May 2004 at 04:12 AM.] [This message was edited by Blake Hawkins on 29 May 2004 at 04:21 AM.] |
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John Pelz
From:
Kettering, Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 May 2004 6:50 am
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Thanks for all of the excellent information, everybody. BTW, the records in question are a couple of Jerry Byrd & the String Dusters 78s from the 50s...  |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 29 May 2004 6:59 am
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I would say the "exact" speed is the least concern. The highly probable scratches far and away would overide any minor deviation in original "cut" speed. As the posters have said, it was quite variable back then and ANY thing but an exact science as it is today.
carl
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 29 May 2004 5:15 pm
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There are some pretty darned good pop hum and scratch removers for the higher end workstations, but unfortunately nothing i have seen of much use under $500, plus a system.
I still find it VERY useful to have a song in something like correct pitch. I hate having to retune an instrument every other song just to learn it.
Not to mention playing it for those poor souls with perfect pitch.
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2004 1:51 pm
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think it might be a really bad idea to try this with a 45rpm standard cartridge record player.
I had to look into this for a friend who had old 78s that were stamped aluminum masters as well as regular "vinyl", and a few wire recordings to transcribe. 78s did not just have a different speed, they had a different technique used to cut the grooves... someone with a selection of stylus's will have a much easier time getting to the clean part of the signal; it's a complicated story, but here's a link that goes into (lots and lots and lots) of detail about vinyl restoring and transcribing... short answer: your 45rpm player isn't going to work well, if at all, to get a good sound out of the old recordings.
Click Here
That guy does restorations, and/or direct transfers for $20/record. I recommended him to a friend, as he's been recommended to me.
I think using the wrong needle might also mess up the records you now have... so while I appreciate the appeal of the project, you might this a better solution... the right stylus at the right speed, dumped to CD immediately by someone who can minimize the wear on the disc in the process, or remaster and noise correct it for you... |
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Mark Herrick
From:
Bakersfield, CA
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Posted 1 Jun 2004 2:03 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...here's a link that goes into (lots and lots and lots) of detail... |
Man! You were NOT kidding...
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John Pelz
From:
Kettering, Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2004 3:38 pm
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Thanks for the link, Nicholas. Wish I'd read that page before I'd recorded the 78s!  Oh, well, live and learn... Thanks again-- very interesting reading... |
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