Hilton pedal + Matchbox?

Cartwright Thompson · Posted 11 Aug 2003 2:09 am

I find that I like the sound of my guitar through the Hilton pedal better with my Matchbox than without. Although it has been said that the Hilton pedal has all the circuitry of the Matchbox, and that using them together is redundant, I think it sounds better that way.
Does anyone else do this?

Dan Dowd · From: Paducah, KY, R.I.P.

I use it that way also. I play a U 12 and it helps take the edge off when playing the B 6th stuff using the tone control. The Hilton Pedal works great and beats the old pot pedal which would cut some highs when playing it full down. Another advantage is setting the level control to adjust your max volume.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I would never give up my Matchbox. It is indispensible for volume and tone control alone.
Erv

David Doggett · Posted 11 Aug 2003 10:19 am

I had the same dilemma when I got a Hilton pedal. I missed the volume and tone control of the Matchbox clipped on the leg of my pedal steel. But if I used the Matchbox or a clip-on tone control, then there was a noticeable loss of highs and overtones. Some pickups (for example BL-710) have too much high end with the Hilton, so maybe it's workable to use a Matchbox or clip-on tone control with them. But then, what's the point of having a Hilton pedal?

My ideal solution would be for Keith Hilton to take the volume and tone controls out of the pedal and put them in a separate unit to clip on the leg of the guitar.

A related problem is that my Steel Driver does not sound good with a Hilton pedal. It would be nice if Keith would come up with a good clip-on distortion box to go along with his pedal. I'll pass on the consulting fee, Keith. Just having the devices available to buy would be payment enough.

Harold Parris · From: Piedmont, Alabama USA

I'm using the Hilton digital sustain box and the Hilton pedal. This combo sounds good together. One is not enough to suite me.

David Doggett · Posted 12 Aug 2003 9:54 am

Harold, could you describe what the digital sustain box does, either electronically or musically? Thanks.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Thanks for the kind words about my products. I do have several people who do like using my Digital Sustain, or a Match Box, with my pedal. Here is what is happening; Almost every powered device has a pre-amp. Pre-amps increase signal strength by multiplication not addition. For example; Multiplying 8 times 8 equals 64, while adding 8 plus 8 only equals 16. Big difference! As a signal gets stronger it eventually reaches a point of distortion. A very strong signal can provide a feeling, or sense, of better response, and sustan seems to feel like it has increased. I question wheather this translates into better tone quality. I suppose it does translate into better tone in some ways, because a person plays better if he likes his sound. In electronic theory pre-amping a pre-amp is redundant because a single pre-amp can be configured to have a gain stronger than two pre-amps. If you are using any kind of effect unit that has input gain controls, you can turn this pre-amp up and get the same result. Most players, including me, only use my pedal with a multi-effect unit.
In my case, I use a Peavey Pro FexII and set the pre-amp gain on the Peavey Pro FexII's input. This gives me two pre-amps in line before my amps--My pedal and the Pro Fex II. If you are using a Matchbox, my pedal, and a multi-effect unit, you really have 3 pre-amps in line boosting signal. I don't agree with what has been said about the Bill Lawrence 710 pickups having too much highs with my pedal. I have many famous steel players using 710 pickups with my pedal. Infact, there are several Steel Guitar Hall of Fame members using 710 pickups with my pedal. If you are not used to hearing, or don't like, the high end frequency the 710s can produce, these highs can easily be removed. My pedal has a tone control and you can rake off all the highs you want. I feel that Bill Lawrence is a great pickup designer and the 710s I have heard are great sounding when used with my pedal. One of the best sounding quitars I ever heard was an old black Emmons with 710 pickups. The sound would tear your heart out when someone played those old Ray Price songs. My Digital Sustain and the Matchbox have tone controls, and these devices clip to the leg of a steel. I agree that a simple distortion device clipped to the leg of a steel is handy. The old Boss Tone fuzz filled a need, even though it was not the perfect distortion device,it was simple and easy to use. The Steel Driver distortion box may be designed for a instrument level signal, and can't handle a pre-amped signal. That is a desgin flaw in my opinion. Most good equipment will accpect both a pre-amped or instrument level signal. My pedal will accept either on the input and so will a Peavey Amplifier. Some designers only design their box to accept a low level signal from a magnetic pickup. This is pretty common in lower cost guitar stomp boxes. For example; In my opinion the "Holy Grail" reverb unit has this problem on the input. I have been working for some time on some effects that are operated with knee levers.

David Doggett · Posted 15 Aug 2003 12:33 pm

That's all interesting, Keith. Thanks. And I have to admit, that with the tone on the Hilton pedal dialed down, the BL-712 pickup sounds mighty good on my S12 Fessy. But from all you said, I still didn't get exactly what your digital sustain box does when added to a Hilton pedal. How would my sound change?

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

David, maybe I can send you a Digital Sustain in late September to try, after the Steel Guitar Convention in St. Louis. When using an additional pre-amp,really close to your pickup, that has a gain control, you can make your signal really strong. When you control a very strong signal everything feels like it has more response. This is because you are controlling more power. Again, I don't know if this makes the tone any better. If you like the feel of more response-and-signal power, I suppose feeling good about your sound makes you play better. Hence, a better tone because you feel better, making you play better. Keep in mind that you probably already have another pre-amp in line beside the pedal, that is if you have an effect unit. You can turn this up to gain signal strength. In my opinion the big difference is how close the pre-amp is to the pickup. For best results it seems the pre-amp needs to be really close to the pickup. As you turn input signal strength up, keep in mind that you will probably have to turn your amp down. The "wild card" in sound is putting the pre-amp really close to the pickup and having the gain of the pre-amp be adjustable. Both my Digital Sustain and the Match Box does this. From an electronic theory standpoint, I hesitate to say that pre-amping a pre-amp, that is, the Digital Sustain with my pedal will create better tone. After all, the exact same circuit in the Digital Sustain is the first stage of the circuit in my pedal. The only difference being the Digital Sustain has an adjustable gain and the pedal has a fixed gain. Hope this information helps.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Keith is soooooooo correct. Remember, as volume increases OR decreases, the human ear always perceives a tonal change.

This is the reason hi end stereos have always included a "loudness control" to compensate for this anamoly in our ears.

My point being, unless the volume is exactly the same, their WILL be a perceived difference in tone when conducting any audio A and B tests. This is the prime reason for most of the statements made on this forum when comparing audio devices. NO disrespect intended.

carl

Harold Parris · From: Piedmont, Alabama USA

David, Carl, and Keith,

I could not get the sound out of the Hilton volume pedal that I was getting with the Hilton box. I am talking about balance and body across the string. I like the pedal but I missed the good balanced sound I was getting from the box. I tried several adjustsments to the pedal to no avail. I decided to try running the box through the pedal although I was afraid of overdriving. I thought, well I could turn the pedal gain down and use the box drive. I initially tried the box through the pedal with the pedal gain set as per factory setup. I had no distortion and I got the full bodied sound I was searching for. Needless to say I didn't change the pedal settings. In my case, my pedal doesn't have the body and drive that the box has. I can't explain it maybe Kieth can.

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