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Topic: Home Studio Design, Acoustics, Layout,etc |
Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2003 9:42 pm |
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Hello out there.
I have been searching and reading previous posts in this section. These have been very helpful with regard to equipment, and recording methods.
Our garage band got a promotion, to an older vacant house (1946). We are the only people using the place.  Got a/c, and a fridge...period. (swingin' doors, a juke box, and some bar stools)
Sound isolation is not the main issue. We are far enough from the neighbors (I hope) and the street noise.
Our objective is to have a practice room that sounds good to us. We will use the room for tracking at an amateur level.
We have some good enough mic's, mic pre's, a 16 track YammerHammer, and a pair of Event monitors.
Instruments are drums, electric piano, acoustic bass guitar, acoustic and electric geetars, dobro, and electric steel, one to three part vocals.(no banjos)
House is pier and beam foundation, wood floors, sheetrock walls and ceiling. 2 glass windows. rectangular living room with joining dining room. 8 foot ceiling height.
Living room is about 15 by 25 feet.
It seems to me that there are different kinds of acoustical designs for different purposes.
*performance room/hall acoustics
*tracking/rehearsal room acoustics
*mixing room acoustics
My topic is more about what we should consider, advice on layout, sound treatment, etc. Not seeking perfection...seeking fun.
Thanks for your help |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 3 Mar 2003 3:54 am
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Hi Ron...I'll be watching for the responses to your query with interest. In addition to the acoustics question my dilemma with the in-home studio (read one-person operation)is the arrangement/management of the equipment where the switches, view-meters, mics, etc, are all convenient to reach and control while both playing and recording!
If I ever get something down on paper that I think will work I'll build or buy whatever will facilitate both the acoustical and the management questions. www.genejones.com |
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Glenn Austin
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 3 Mar 2003 9:19 am
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| If you have a roon that's big enough, I would set everyone up in a circle, so they can all see one another. Drums in a gyproc room sound absolutely awful, so you should get a good thick carpet on the floor or hang something on the walls like moving blankets, to cut down on the migraine factor. The best thing to put on the walls is 1" - 2" thick fiberglass panels with cloth covering. Fiberglass panels absord most frequencies equally, but are unfortunately the most expensive way to go. You would end up with a good live sounding room, with not too much slap and ringing. The room makes a huge difference in how good your recordings will sound. |
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seldomfed
From:
Colorado
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Posted 3 Mar 2003 11:54 am
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Get this book!
How to Build A Small Budget Recording Studio From Scratch : With 12 Tested Designs
by Mike Shea, F. Alton Everest
Amazon.com is less that $20. Will pay for itself in ideas. Has plans for residence and garage recording as well as others. Be careful about all the myths of hanging rugs, using lots of carpet, old egg cartons etc. or you'll be playing inside a 'box stuffed with pillows' (and don't use cheap foam - fire hazard!!)Do some reading about acoustics and design. It's pretty easy.
The equip setup just depends - a little planning for ergonomics and you'll be fine.
have fun.
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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.seldomfed.com
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Matt Steindl
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2003 4:20 pm
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Without seeing the place, it is hard to tell you how to treat the room. But since you say it will primarily be used for rehearsal, COMFORT is going to be the optimum word.
Have a bunch of blankets or Auralex around, and if it is too live sounding, throw some blankets on the walls and furniture.
Bottom line, if it is comfortable in nature, you will be more relaxed and it will sound better.
Im jealous by the way!
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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 3 Mar 2003 5:15 pm
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Yes get the book. One main thing is to break up the standing waves as much as you can. A cheap way to get SOME of that done is get triangular book shelves, floor to cieling, and fill with all sorts of different sizes of books. Heavy books prefered. The random size and weight of the books will help break up the waves that meet in the corners. You will still have ceiling floor waves along the walls, but this can still help. Many random sized heavy things, like books, a dismantled stone wall, along all the floor at the bottom of the walls will help with the floor ceiling wall waves a bit.
But remember this is not scientifically designed wave cancelling it is random guestimation. If it's too bright even with the thick carpet, buy some Sonex Foam acoustics panels, glue them on panels and suspend them from above acoustic face down. but not parrallel to the floor, just a bit off angle to all room surfaces. Put some cheap foam on the back so it doesn't reflect highs with the ceiling.
That is of course if you have enough height.
Acoustics is by far the toughest thing to do in a studio. FAR and away the most important.
Forget foam and egg cartons on the walls the standing waves will still ring in a too dead room.
There are several brands of sound control panels available. putting some sheets of Tectum on end floor to ceiling around the room can also help break up the waves.
Remember only use fire proof ones. I saw the video of The Station... and one look at the back wall and I saw why it went up like that. A Cheezewiz attempt at sound control on the dirt cheap. Bloody shame.
But the only way to really get it tight and right is with an acoustic engineers analysis. I'd lend you mine, but he's in Paris. Sorry.
Get the Book and any others you can find. The newer the better.
This is worth more than your equipment to the live sound you can get. A $10,000 guitar recorded with a $5000 mic into a $50,000 recording system, but recorded in a cement basement will sound like crap even close mic'ed. Garbage in garbage out.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 March 2003 at 05:16 PM.] |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2003 7:39 pm
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| I found the Alton Everest books to be too technical for me. By far, the very best , easy to understand book, IMHO, is Building a Recording Studio by Jeff Cooper. Published by Synergy Group, Inc. 4766 Park Granada, Suite 106 Calabasas, CA 91302. Trust me, this is THE book you want. |
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Dave Boothroyd
From:
Staffordshire Moorlands
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 1:22 am
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Ron , if I were to tell you that you should have a reverberation time of 0.5 to 0.7 seconds for a nice sounding large rehearsal room, it would probably not be much use to you.
But if you can get your head round using an Excel Spreadsheet, I've got one I use for my students which allows you to put in the size of each of your walls and say what they are made of. Then it calculates reverb time for you, and you can see what happens when you put in carpet or curtains.
It comes with an idiot's step by step guide too -It is for students after all!
All the other stuff about foam and bookshelves is spot on.
You need things that will diffuse or scatter sound on the walls instead of reflecting it back like a mirror.
If you would like the Sabine formula spreadsheet, email me.
Cheers
Dave |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 4:17 am
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Thanks Dave B for the 'spot on' comment!
It is really rocket science to do ACURATE acoustics, But you can make vast improvements with some relatively cheap and simple things.
For your wall ceiling bounderies, if you can build a diffuser from a board and basicly random cut 2x4 ends 1'-4" screwed and glued randomly (angles too) onto the board, and then the whole thing strongly attached along the wall ceiling edge, that can help some too, on the cheap. Do at least the middle of each wall ceiling, but ideally the whole place. This is the other side of the small stonewall along the floor. But much lighter. Round the ends a bit, stain it nice and it's almost art!
It depends on if you can really attach stuff to your walls. Mass / weight is good with this stuff.(ref. stone wall along floor above) You don't want want it vibrating if it can be helped.
I am a bass player. Ac + Elc., for 30+ years and "we" hear the effects of a room's "Modes" before anyone else. I have been known to rearrange a band's stage setup during sound check to move the bass amp or the upright to a better sounding place. Ok drummer, Left Corner Now! Don't argue.I need your spot.
Also you can add 3D art work randomly along the walls. Something nice and odd shaped: Buffaloe heads, old guitars filled with foam (heimholtz resonators, eeeek Dave LOL), plaster torsos, more books on shelves but without wide shelf sides, store window maniquins, ex-girfirends what ever you can find and like. As long as they're solid and heavy, but don't rip out the plaster.
Get the spread sheet from Dave and run the numbers and send it back to him to see if you got it right. Ideally you want a liveish diffused room, with maybe one end a little more dead. A too dead room sounds VERY unnatural.but a less live corner has it's uses. Bon Chance![This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 March 2003 at 04:37 AM.] |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 4:43 am
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| Gene. Pictures and a equipment list would help you inquiry. I can only be hypothetcal otherwise. I will e-mail a pic of my set up. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 4:45 am
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| Gene. Pictures and a equipment list would help your inquiry. I can only be hypothetcal otherwise. I will e-mail a pic of my set up. |
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Steve Stallings
From:
Houston/Cypress, Texas
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 9:36 am
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My entire studio is a 14x21 room with 9' ceilings. This is inside our 102 year old restored home. I went to www.homerecording.com and www.auralex.com for advice. I wound up with 8 T-Diffusors, 22 2" 24x48 Wedges and 10 Lernt Bass traps. I am installing a new floor that is floated hardwood. Covering up the windows to eliminate sound bleed form outside and inside is not very hard to do. I am using Corning fiberglass panels in the windows and covering them with the Auralex foam wedges. This is aesthetically pleasing as well as effective. I had the room wired on a different service then the remainder of the home. Here is a link to a line drawing. The mixer sits on an old fireplace hearth. There are racks of gear flanking the mixer. The fireplace is of course closed up. The double doors open into our living room. The east wall borders our 13 and 16 y/o boys bedroom.
I still have a lot of work to do...
http://thenightshiftband.bravepages.com/Studio.bmp
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God Bless,
Steve Stallings
www.thenightshiftband.net
[This message was edited by Steve Stallings on 04 March 2003 at 09:39 AM.] |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 10:39 am
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How to Build A Small Budget Recording Studio From Scratch : With 12 Tested Designs
by Mike Shea, F. Alton Everest
What seldomfed said! I used this book seven years ago to build a home studio in the basement of my home, and accomplished 2 things: 1) excellent isolation from the goings-on upstairs and 2) very measured control over somewhat dubious acoustics. The book is very detailed and offers great solutions to common acoustics woes. It also provides names and numbers of good suppliers (although it's bound to be out of date by now).
I recommend this book highly. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 11:57 am
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| ~Getting the book is the best place to start. even before getting the room. But if you have the room, get the book. |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 3:37 pm
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| Thanks to everyone for lots of good info and ideas, and especially to David for the pictures of his very professional looking studio. My room looks like a cross between a pawn shop and a garage sale! Breaking up standing waves are easy in that environment! When I get back from Dallas I'm gona make a real effort to do something positive in there. www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 05 March 2003 at 03:51 AM.] |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 6:24 pm
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Wow. Seek and ye shall find!
I am truly impressed with wealth of helpful information. I have been reading "acoustics 101" on Auralex website, while I wait for books recommended.
Yes, I can do Excel spreadsheets. I'll send Email. We wanna do a good job before we move in.
Thanks again. Keep it going and I will keep you posted.
Steve, thanks for the tip on Auralex website. Very helpful. Products are affordable.
RR
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 4 Mar 2003 9:39 pm
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I end up recording in all sorts of studios. It seem like the guys that get the best sound are the ones that know there space
(closet,hallway,bathroom,basement.....) and understand mic placement. There are piles of major release CDs out there that were recording in totally rediculous situations. Absolutely no regard for all that scientific stuff.
Since it will be your place for a while I would just set up however you are the most comfortable and throw up some mics and record. Listen back and if something isn't working mess around with it until it works. I sure wouldn't be spending band money on acousitcal wedges for the corners when I could pile an old couch up there for free. With the money you save from not buying fancy studio stuff you could invest in several cases of Shiner and use the empty boxes as standing (or barely standing) wave deflectors. If somebodies amp sounds to boomy you could put the amp on another empty Shiner case.
The real hardcore listening environment becomes more critical in the final mastering phase. Up till then for recording I'll go with the Joe Meek quote "If it sounds right it is right."
Sounds like you have a fun scene going on.
Bob |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 5 Mar 2003 4:15 am
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Hey Gene Just stack everything floor to ceiling in the corners.... Just joking, sort of. LOL
Mic placement for acoustic instruments.
Get some great headphones. Ideally all exactly the same for ALL players and the engineer. I really like the Sony MDR-7506. Loud and clear, and you can get a good idea of mic placement. Several players can be comfortable in the room with these. Not cheap, but worth the money.
Next when finding the room / instrument tone, put the mic straight through no EQ, compresion or anything else. Get a nice level in the cans in control room.
Then go put on the cans in the playing room and move the mic around while listening for it to "Sing to you". Put the mic there. Record it dry and your in business. Afterwards you can mess with it in the mix.
During recording a touch of reverb usually is good for the players heads.
Also get the best mic you can afford.. and think to go over budget in this area. One GREAT mic is worth it's weight in platinum.
I have one Brauner Valvet and wish I had 4.
Remember; garbage in garbage out, and if you do mic placement and monitor with garbage... |
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Jeremy Brownlow
From:
Wimberley, Texas, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2003 5:28 am
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I am thinking of putting in a hardwood or laminate floor in my home studio. I am confused because many say put up foam and blankets while I see many studios with live hardwood floors.
My studio is a bed room 10'x15'with 8' ceilings. Two of the four walls are sheet rock with texture and paint, the other two walls are knotty pine wood with rough side out.
There is carpet on the floor and the ceiling is flat sheet rock without the bumpy acoustic spray. I have the closet setup as an iso booth.
Should I keep the carpet? Any thoughts or hints on this room? I am going to buy at least one of the previously mentioned books today.[This message was edited by Jeremy Brownlow on 05 March 2003 at 05:53 AM.] |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 5 Mar 2003 3:44 pm
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If the walls and ceiling are very live, like sheet rock, go with thick carpet.
If damped walls, hard wood is cool, as long as you have some nice rugs too.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 05 March 2003 at 06:06 PM.] |
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Steve Stallings
From:
Houston/Cypress, Texas
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Posted 6 Mar 2003 1:40 pm
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| The room I mentioned above currently has very thick plush carpet on a heavy pad. In effect this acts as a lowpass filter making the room kinda boomy. The Auralex folks specifically caution against carpeting like this in a studio. Interestingly enough, this carpet is over a 102 year old hardwood floor. It is actually less expensive to lay a laminate floor over this than to refinish it. I am going to put it in a KronuSwiss Silent Step Floor. This has a special accoustical backing which reduces sound transmission by 50% It also is AC4 (25 year, commerical use) rated. First, I need to finish the studio treatment projects I have going.... |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 6 Mar 2003 2:28 pm
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The pad with the carpet is too thick in this case and or the carpet too. It depends on the room. Your rolling off to many highs in this case. The acoustic flor will help, but you may find the room bright at that point.
Good luck. |
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RickRichtmyer
From:
Beautiful Adamstown, MD
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Posted 7 Mar 2003 8:56 am
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Here's a good resource.
Rick |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2003 5:43 pm
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That IS a good resource.
I have read the books. Got some ideas.
House is vacant now except for the fridge.
We have removed the wall-to-wall carpet and found a nice hardwood floor underneath. Cleaned the ductwork, souped up the a/c, and are ready to begin.
Stallings studio pics gave me some ideas. Auralex website is helpful.
I'll keep you up to date. |
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