Loudness maximisers?

Tony Harris · From: England

Do any of you studio people out there use 'Loudness Maximisers'across a mix? In my day-job I make radio and TV ads where everyone wants to make their ad sound louder on air than everyone else's. Does it have to affect the EQ to make it sound louder? I guess it's the type of thing you might use on loud rock or hip-hop or rap music, but would you use it on something 'smoother', like an acoustic album? Can't believe how cheap some of the units are (Behringer)...
Thanks.

Matt Steindl · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

I use a Loudness Maximizer plugin, by Steinberg I think, I use it as a mastering tool for a complete band mix. Not sure if this is the correct way to use it, but it makes the whole mix louder and seems to sound just as "musical" and pretty as before i pumped it up. I think it is just a type of maximizing compression effect anyway, so you might want to try to just use an existing compressor to acheive the same result.

Lets see what the real experts have to say about it though!

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S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Glenn Austin · From: Montreal, Canada

Hi Tony, I produce a lot of radio and Tv ads too. I work on Protools most of the time and use the Maxim or L1 Maximizer plugins across final mixes. I also record all my voice overs with about 3-10 db of compression. These 2 plugins don't affect Eq, they are essentially limiters with a zero attack time. When dealing with voice there is a lot of dynamic content left over, even when recording with compression, and a plugin like Maxim will allow you to go and get those signal peaks, and raise up the programme level, without really changing how it sounds. If you wanted to get a rackmount device, I suggest the TC Finalizer. It has a 3 band compressor/ limiter, 5 band Eq, does all sorts of sample rate conversions etc. When used sparingly they really do make mixes sound better and louder. I use them all the time on everything. Email me if you want to know more.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I'm certainly no expert, but I wouldn't want my music to sound like a commercial! Maybe I listened to too much symphonic music when I was young, or something, but I actually like to hear dynamic range in music. Without it, music has all the auditory appeal of the clickety-clack of an old typewriter.

Also, were I an advertiser, I wouldn't want my commercials to sound LOUDER than my competitor's, I'd want them to sound BETTER.

There's a difference.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 22 November 2002 at 02:30 PM.]

Tony Harris · From: England

Thanks for your comments guys. Donny, I do make my ads sound as GOOD as I can (the content is down to the client). Then the client wants it LOUDER than everyone else's. Haven't you noticed how many ads have the voiceover SHOUT the message at you?
As for dynamic range in music, I've just bought an orchestral CD which boasts "No EQ, No limiting, No compression". In an average listening room with ordinary ambient noise, the quiet passages are barely audible, and the peaks make the dog jump! I would too, if I didn't know they were coming...
So there is a place for compression...

Miguel e Smith · From: Phoenix, AZ

I agree that there definately is a use for loudness maximizers. As with any processor, there is an 'overuse' point that can be reached. Where that point is reached is up to the folks using it. Compression or any other processor is kind-of like a weapon...use it responsibly but don't be afraid of making mistakes (I've made them all).

I generally use Paris Pro 3.0 and then edit the overall mix in WaveLab. I also use the Waves L1-Ultramaximizer plug-in.

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

I have to say, that I think it's a big relief to my ears and mind to hear songs where it's NOT used!! That's the difference when you play an albumversion or a singleversion from a song, the single is mastered the way it would be as flat and loud as possible on radio. Please, if there is no need to use it, leave it that way!!
The music breaths more, has more ease. I hope sometime more radiomakers and producers will find out, but for now, it's part of the hype!

JJ

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Glenn Austin · From: Montreal, Canada

Johan, How do you know when its not used. Compression is very beneficial to recorded audio, for less than perfect listening enviroments, which is pretty much everwhere. How some people overdo it is debatable. There is a fine line between making a mix "big and punchy", and "sucking the life out of it"

Miguel e Smith · From: Phoenix, AZ

I've had folks tell me they can tell the difference between 16 and 24-bit digital audio. I've also had people tell me they can tell if a U-47 was used instead of a U-87 (all just from listening). Maybe Johan has a special gift for hearing and 'can' tell the difference. (I'm still amazed at one of my friends who truly has perfect pitch.)

However, I would suspect that even Johan's albums are mastered by someone who probably uses compression tastefully. Maybe there's even a communication barrier here that is placing us at extreme ends of examples of processing anyhow (?). Of the projects I've worked on, the only differences between the album cuts and single releases may be the length of the song (unless it's a variation of a mix for dance versions or film/TV use). Radio doing what they do, well...that's radio.

[This message was edited by Miguel e Smith on 03 December 2002 at 09:28 AM.]

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

Hi Glenn and Miquel,
I'm fond of good (tube)compressors, but where I'm talking about, is just the extreme thing you hear on popradio-stations. Good compressors are unbearable in studio's, yes I'm convinced!
But even compress-mastered singles are played through aTC finalyser and broadcasted then, yes, sucked all life out!
Because albums mostly aren't played on radio's , compared to singletracks, they don't use the same type of mastering.
But if you listen to a single-track that is mixed right into your face, even the breathing is that pumped up to the same level of a screaming voice , wich is flattened then,then leveled on the radio-station, it looses all richness, and it's the in-perfection that makes it lively and human to me.
I work a lot in studio's , and I even can tell who did the mastering, (from my friends ..... )
It's not a gift, it's a matter of using your ears and knowing wher to listen to

You can do it to, I'm shure!!
Johan

[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 03 December 2002 at 10:24 AM.]

Bob Metzger · From: Waltham (Boston), MA, USA

Loudness maximizer? isn't that a lead guitarist?

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